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Re:Google's CFO Ruth Porat is pushing “creatives” to bring c... by throwaway12522 on Saturday September 17, 2016 @10:23PM (#12523633)
My point is less about the t-shirts specifically (as I said, it's a minimal cost) and more about the company culture as a whole. If you can make a silly request for an office fire pole and the company will give you a fire pole, does that foster an attitude where you'll just throw more servers at a problem instead of thinking hard about your systems, or an attitude where a cool project will stay in development for a long time, even when the business case for it stops making sense.
Re:Google's CFO Ruth Porat is pushing “creatives” to bring c... by JamesBarney on Saturday September 17, 2016 @11:00PM (#12523731)
Sometimes throwing money at a problem is the right solution. I've been at companies where we've spent 16 man hours trying to figure out how to clear up space on a server(about 40 GB). Have there been a more open purchasing system we just would have gone out and bought a hard drive and saved the company $8500.
Re:Google's CFO Ruth Porat is pushing “creatives” to bring c... by niij on Sunday September 18, 2016 @12:49AM (#12523977)
This hits close to home. :)
Re:Google's CFO Ruth Porat is pushing “creatives” to bring c... by skybrian on Saturday September 17, 2016 @11:10PM (#12523756)
So, basically it's about symbolism?

I remember working at a place that made employees buy their own pens, maybe as symbol of frugality. Nobody really got it - we just thought it was eccentric.

Some workspace amenities are basically just props - they don't cost anything once installed. People try it out a few times and go back to work. Day to day, it's about as significant as the junk on the walls at a theme restaurant, but it makes the space look "creative", and apparently that's more important than looking "frugal". Arcade games get used that way too - sure, you can play it, but who has time?

Meanwhile, important, recurring costs like improving data center efficiency do get a lot more attention.

Re:Google's CFO Ruth Porat is pushing “creatives” to bring c... by fdsaaf on Saturday September 17, 2016 @10:28PM (#12523642)
That fire pole costs a lot less than the salary increase you'd need in order to achieve the same level of employee retention. Google has quite a bit of engineering talent; you don't want that talent to evaporate for the sake of some short-term cost savings. Your scheme will absolutely affect innovation: it will cause innovators to leave.

If you want to cut datacenter costs, reward engineers for impact, and include cost savings under your definition of impact. Engineers are pretty rational people and will respond to incentives.

Re:Google's CFO Ruth Porat is pushing “creatives” to bring c... by crucifiction on Saturday September 17, 2016 @10:55PM (#12523716)
as a thought experiment, Amazon is basically the opposite of the google culture in this perspective (door desks, soda/food is not subsidized, equipment is just barely enough, etc). now, this leads to lots of complaints from a subset of engineers who do then go to google (or like) pretty quickly. but Amazon does seem to be able to innovate (aws, kindle/fire, alexa) and survive in very low margin businesses. google seems to have struggled to move beyond search in any meaningful way.
Re:Google's CFO Ruth Porat is pushing “creatives” to bring c... by shiift on Sunday September 18, 2016 @05:17AM (#12524546)
I understand the point you're trying to make about the stress on frugality at Amazon and I agree with you, but your specific points are more accurate for past Amazon. These days Amazon has become significantly more accommodating.

The door desks are more of a tradition. You can request more expensive automatic standing desks easily. The soda/food is not subsidized day-to-day, but we do get coffee and tea (and if you stay late due to work you can get reimbursed for dinner depending on your team). The hardware is perfectly fine as well. I have 2x 1440p monitors and an i7 13" Retina MacBook Pro as well as a cloud desktop (courtesy of AWS) with scaling hardware as I need it for development.

Re:Google's CFO Ruth Porat is pushing “creatives” to bring c... by crucifiction on Sunday September 18, 2016 @11:47PM (#12528726)
I am also at Amazon currently. You are right, its not as frugal as in the past but it is still significantly more frugal than an environment like Google or similar startups/unicorns that go for that. I have interviewed people who are horrified to see soda machines with prices. Requesting a nicer desk (which requires some ergo hoops), no daily soda/food, and decent but not fully maxed out hardware is still pretty frugal comparatively for engineers, even if they have loosened things up in the last 3-4 years from before. While Amazon now provides you hardware that is actual functional for the job, places like Google are giving you free yoga and dry cleaning.
Re:Google's CFO Ruth Porat is pushing “creatives” to bring c... by maverick_iceman on Sunday September 18, 2016 @01:43AM (#12524094)
>google seems to have struggled to move beyond search in any meaningful way.

Ever heard of Gmail, Chrome, YouTube or Android?

Re:Google's CFO Ruth Porat is pushing “creatives” to bring c... by majewsky on Sunday September 18, 2016 @09:52AM (#12525295)
I don't think the first two make any revenue, except in terms of data collected.
Re:Google's CFO Ruth Porat is pushing “creatives” to bring c... by honkhonkpants on Sunday September 18, 2016 @06:29PM (#12527542)
I'm sure you don't believe that Gmail's revenue is zero.
Re:Google's CFO Ruth Porat is pushing “creatives” to bring c... by mmargerum on Sunday September 18, 2016 @09:58PM (#12528295)
Google apps for business isnt free. I pay for gmail.
Re:Google's CFO Ruth Porat is pushing “creatives” to bring c... by honkhonkpants on Saturday September 17, 2016 @10:28PM (#12523644)
I don't believe those are equivalent scenarios, because it is much easier to request a fire pole in your office than to request production resources.
Re:Google's CFO Ruth Porat is pushing “creatives” to bring c... by lfender6445 on Saturday September 17, 2016 @10:59PM (#12523727)
hilarious but true in many cases