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Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by matthewmacleod on Monday August 01, 2016 @07:22AM (#12201542)
The PoststgreSQL project never fails to impress me. I know that there are some use cases which are not currently covered by it versus alternatives, but I have consistently got the feeling that everybody involved in the project is supremely professional and interested in building an excellent database – and the focus is on how to work to fix these use cases, instead of pointless mudslinging. Class act.
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by raverbashing on Monday August 01, 2016 @07:57AM (#12201684)
True, they're admitting there's a problem (which exists for this very specific user case) and not just deflecting the criticism.

I'm impressed, I'd say a lot of projects couldn't have handled this so nicely

Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by scottmmjackson on Monday August 01, 2016 @01:21PM (#12204194)
They're trying to "Do One Thing And Do It Well". It's always interesting how core UNIX philosophy often gets lost in Startup Culture's rush to "Disrupt The World".
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by paulddraper on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @10:20AM (#12210108)
Databases do lots of stuff: authentication, data persistence, query optimization, process management, even an file system.

They are not the prime example I would use for DOTADIW.

Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by derefr on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @11:16AM (#12210543)
Provide one abstraction and provide it well, maybe?

Puts me in mind of something I've seen done in Redis, and in the OSX (really NeXT) CoreFoundation container classes. In both, you instantiate an abstract data-structure based on worst-case time-space guarantees you want from its API. Then, the implementation actually instantiates it as one of several underlying concrete classes, usually starting with one that wins for low content sizes just because of fewer dereferences needed (e.g. a "ziplist" in Redis); and then migrates the content to a different underlying concrete container transparently when content reaches a certain size.

In both cases, you're giving the user a cleaner abstraction that they can think less about, but you're accomplishing it by making the computer itself do far more internal book-keeping, and creating a much more heavily-engineered design.

Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by erez on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @08:00AM (#12209263)
How does adding support for JSON types work with the Unix idea?
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by stevenwiles on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @02:31PM (#12212085)
True, this is certainly a commendable move on their part and while they are making the right decision here, I feel they've shown real professionalism and class.

Color me impressed as well.

Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by babuskov on Monday August 01, 2016 @07:53AM (#12201672)
> The PoststgreSQL project never fails to impress me.

Except the name is a bit clunky and hard to write ;)

Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by craigkerstiens on Monday August 01, 2016 @12:34PM (#12203765)
A small bit of history from Tom Lane one of the biggest contributors to the project "Arguably, the 1996 decision to call it PostgreSQL instead of reverting to plain Postgres was the single worst mistake this project ever made."

- https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/[email protected]...

Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by phaed on Monday August 01, 2016 @01:19PM (#12204182)
> It seems too late to change it now

That's what they said in 1996. Then they said it again in 2006. In 2026 when its interwoven in all sorts of AI systems and still causing confusion, they will be looking back thinking why didn't they fix it back in 2017 when they still could. "Now" is always the right time, it's never too late.

Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by rabidrat on Monday August 01, 2016 @02:38PM (#12204797)
“The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.” – Chinese Proverb
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by cpeterso on Monday August 01, 2016 @05:35PM (#12206213)
And the name "Postgres" was an extension of "Ingres":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingres_(database)

Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by rlpb on Monday August 01, 2016 @08:49AM (#12201923)
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by DiabloD3 on Monday August 01, 2016 @09:40AM (#12202265)
Or pg if the context is clear enough.
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by klodolph on Monday August 01, 2016 @09:49AM (#12202320)
That might be more than slightly confusing here on Hacker News.
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by jjwiseman on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @03:54PM (#12212826)
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by hashkb on Monday August 01, 2016 @10:25AM (#12202576)
psql? pgsql?
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by personjerry on Monday August 01, 2016 @12:57PM (#12203980)
Now we wait for pg to release his Arc lisp based database system called pgsql
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by masklinn on Monday August 01, 2016 @10:38AM (#12202687)
Neither works: psql is the bundled postgres shell and (pl/)pgsql is posgres's procedural SQL extension (inspired by Oracle/s pl/sql) so both are pretty ambiguous.
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by systems on Monday August 01, 2016 @12:12PM (#12203556)
pgsql is exclusive to postgresql, and from the context, it should very easy to know if you talking about the programming language or postgresql
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by systems on Monday August 01, 2016 @12:09PM (#12203531)
pg sequel or pg ess-queue-el

are both very good, short, and difficult to confuse with another project or product

i think psql refer specifically to the command line tool of pgsql

Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by assface on Monday August 01, 2016 @10:53AM (#12202806)
It's called Postgres because it was the second DBMS that Stonebraker started after Ingres. So it's "post Ingres", or "post gres"
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by astrodust on Monday August 01, 2016 @06:44PM (#12206637)
Then they made it speak SQL, so it was called PostgreSQL, which some might confuse as "Postgre SQL".
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by scardine on Monday August 01, 2016 @08:44AM (#12201894)
If only a clunky name was the worst problem with some software (even closed source) we have to deal with.
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by Grishnakh on Monday August 01, 2016 @12:21PM (#12203636)
Slightly clunky names are fine as long as they're somewhat cute or clever. Names are important because it's how we identify and remember things, and a catchy name (even if it seems a little ridiculous or clunky) is better than a boring, banal name if the catchy name is memorable.

I'll take PostgreSQL's name (which I consider clever) any day over some name completely devoid of originality or thoughtfulness, such as most of the names Microsoft uses for its software.

Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by kbenson on Monday August 01, 2016 @02:15PM (#12204630)
Yes, at least it's searchable. The current trend of using common words as names was ridiculous as of a few years ago. Now it's just painful. Someone's going to name their project "The" and I'm not sure I'll be able to remain civil at that point.
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by teddyh on Monday August 01, 2016 @05:29PM (#12206175)
There used to be a project named “THE”, but its name was changed to “Archy”:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archy

Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by tracker1 on Monday August 01, 2016 @02:57PM (#12204962)
Microsoft's naming (or lack of) is a mixed blessing.. usually combining "Microsoft" + term works... what sucks is when you search for anything "SQL" and you get a bunch of MS-SQL related links... really, T-SQL and MS-SQL should always be prefixed when referring to the vendor's product.
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by bsandert on Monday August 01, 2016 @12:12PM (#12203558)
> The PostststgreSQL project never fails to impress me.

Let's see how many iterations we'll need for people to actually notice what was pointed out here ;)

Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by logfromblammo on Monday August 01, 2016 @10:22AM (#12202561)
I see clunky names as neutral, as the reduction in search engine collisions usually balances the difficulty in typing.
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by enave on Monday August 01, 2016 @11:46AM (#12203314)
Maybe, but it's a much better name than mysql. I feel like a little kid every time I say "my" anything.
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by kirubakaran on Monday August 01, 2016 @12:14PM (#12203571)
"My" of MySQL is Monty's daughter.

"He lives in Helsinki with his second wife Anna and daughter Maria (after whom MariaDB was named), and has a daughter My (after whom MySQL was named)[14] and a son Max (giving the name for MaxDB) from his first marriage" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Widenius

Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by Grishnakh on Monday August 01, 2016 @12:31PM (#12203739)
Also, I'm pretty sure most of us are mispronouncing MySQL: IIRC, "My" (the Finnish name of his daughter) is pronounced like English "Me".
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by sluukkonen on Monday August 01, 2016 @02:03PM (#12204532)
The y is pronounced like the ü in über.
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by kaitai on Monday August 01, 2016 @08:07PM (#12207032)
A tip that works for some: lips to say "oooo" (like an owl, or someone seeing something shiny for the first time), tongue to say "eeee". Well, worth a try.
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by CamperBob2 on Monday August 01, 2016 @06:29PM (#12206558)
Actually it's more like the 'j' in Eyjafjallajökull.
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by zaroth on Monday August 01, 2016 @10:02PM (#12207400)
Wait, I think you are all just fucking with me...
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by rpazyaquian on Monday August 01, 2016 @02:17PM (#12204639)
"MooSQL"
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by sluukkonen on Monday August 01, 2016 @03:07PM (#12205047)
Not the American pronounciation!
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by schoen on Monday August 01, 2016 @06:02PM (#12206406)
The ü in über is pronounced [y]. I wonder if IPA originally got this symbol from Finnish orthography, then.
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by kpil on Monday August 01, 2016 @09:53PM (#12207371)
I think you will find [y] in most Germanic languages, including German, Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, (most likely) Icelandic, and Dutch, so probably not. But it is a very "Finnish" vowel though... Hyyvää!

Besides, Widenius is Swedish speaking (just like Linus Thorvalds and about 10% of the people of Finland) and the name "My" was more or less invented by the also Swedish speaking Finnish author Tove Jansson in her books about the Moomins.

Although wikipedia claims it to be a short form of Mary or Maria, which I seriously doubt.

Anyway, Finnish has not that much to do with the name, I think that it allegedly was Tove Janssons uncle - a professor in mathematics, that suggested the name based on the mathematical symbol and Greek letter μ pronounced in Swedish. It might even be vaguely similar to how it was pronounced in ancient Greek :-)

Besides, I think that "My" in Finnish would be spelled "Myy" since just about the only simple thing with the Finnish language is that the vowel length is indicated by the number of characters.

Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by schoen on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @11:26AM (#12210624)
Oh, thanks! I was led astray by people earlier in the thread mentioning Finnish and so I simply assumed Monty's first language was Finnish, which, as you point out, it isn't.

Maybe Monty should upload an .au file somewhere saying "Hello, this is Monty Widenius, and I pronounce MySQL as MySQL"!

Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by SQLite on Monday August 01, 2016 @05:56PM (#12206364)
I don't speak Finnish. But I did once hear David Axmark pronounce My's name, and to my ear it sounded like "Mih" - an "M" followed by a short vowel similar to the vowel in "bit". In other words, My's name is the same as Mitt Romney's first name, just without the "t" at the end.
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by schoen on Monday August 01, 2016 @06:06PM (#12206432)
You might want IPA [ɪ]. (But another comment in this thread suggested [y], a sound that English doesn't have, and which is close in several ways to English [i] in "me" or [ɪ] in "bit".)
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by jeremycole on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @02:48AM (#12208203)
My is a Swedish name, not a Finnish one, as Monty is a Swedish-speaking Finn. It's pronounced similar to "Myeuh", so "Myeuh Ess Kuh Ell".
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by ryanlol on Monday August 01, 2016 @08:56AM (#12201964)
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by lsaferite on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @08:42AM (#12209479)
The variations on the project name I've read in this thread alone are amusing.

Three of them being: Postgre Postgreql PoststgreSQL

Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by blaze33 on Monday August 01, 2016 @12:15PM (#12203581)
On the other hand it makes for more relevant search results!

Edit: did not see the typo at first though the word seemed longer than usual...

Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by mjibson on Monday August 01, 2016 @02:33PM (#12204758)
Too bad they didn't name it something non-controversial like cockroach.
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by noisy_boy on Monday August 01, 2016 @01:34PM (#12204305)
Given a choice, I would name it PostSQL.
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by nxzero on Monday August 01, 2016 @08:18AM (#12201773)
>> "focus is on how to work to fix these use cases, instead of pointless mudslinging"

More than that, within PoststgreSQL I get the sense that while there are serious discussions, all parties try to understand alternative positions and resolve conflicts instead of letting them brew.

Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by Pinwheeler on Monday August 01, 2016 @11:04AM (#12202898)
To be fair though... It DID take a user on the scale of Uber to find and report and migrate away because of the problem.
Re:Why we lost Uber as a user by jayflux on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @08:16AM (#12209326)
I agree, I opened that link expecting a "you're doing it wrong" style post. I was pleasantly by what I saw