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Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by jakobdabo on Thursday July 21, 2016 @01:17PM (#12138390)
When I place my smartphone on the desk near the computer speakers any time it is going to ring the speakers start making a funny noise a second or two before the ringing starts. So I presume it must be possible to DIY a cheap sensor for GSM signal detection based on a little speaker.
Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by retox on Thursday July 21, 2016 @01:28PM (#12138481)
This is a silly question but I'd like to understand if it's possible for a human to sense those same signals. So many times I have had a sensation that my phone will ring and then moments later it does.

Probably confirmation bias or maybe I'm subconsciously hearing the interference in speakers and taking the hint from there. It doesn't happen every time and I don't receive a lot of calls.

HN seems a decent place to settle it once and for all.

Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by kcorbitt on Thursday July 21, 2016 @01:35PM (#12138525)
It seems very unlikely that you would be able to sense those frequencies, except indirectly through something like audible speaker interference.

However, this would be pretty easy to test! Just have a friend call you at random times throughout a 2-hour interval or something, and record every time you think the phone is about to ring, and every time it actually does. If there's a close enough correlation between the two, that's fairly persuasive evidence.

Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by michaelvoz on Thursday July 21, 2016 @06:22PM (#12140473)
This is still anecdotal. You would need hundreds of people, also, the very fact that you are expecting calls pollutes that experiment already...
Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by monocasa on Thursday July 21, 2016 @07:28PM (#12140760)
A large sample size of people isn't necessary to verify the ability.

Case in point, the woman who can smell Parkinson's disease, to some ridunculous p-value.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/one-woman-s-abilit...

Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by pessimizer on Thursday July 21, 2016 @07:44PM (#12140838)
It's not anecdotal if it's consistently repeatable. You would only need hundreds of people if you were trying to prove that everyone could do it.
Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by Iv on Thursday July 21, 2016 @09:14PM (#12141117)
You can measure the probability of achieving the result at random and determine the statistical significance of your experiment. Being able to successfully anticipate a call within 10 seconds in a 2 hours interval yields a p < 0.01

Some effects published in medical journals have a less convincing p-value.

Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by curried_haskell on Thursday July 21, 2016 @11:20PM (#12141521)
And ensure that he records all the false positives
Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by greggman on Friday July 22, 2016 @03:49AM (#12142273)
I'd expect it to be audio-ish. I can hear my Macbook Pro compute. AFAIK there's no moving parts except the fan but certain programs I can audibly hear something going on inside the machine. It's kind of annoying as I wish it was silent. Note I'm not saying I have any special ability. I'm sure if I had a sensitive mic I could amplify the sounds.
Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by mkesper on Friday July 22, 2016 @05:35AM (#12142580)
This could simply be some capacitor or fan issues.
Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by yourad_io on Friday July 22, 2016 @07:06AM (#12142854)
Former Dell XPS 13 Sputnik (9333 model) user checking in.

A decent dev machine for $2K-ish, save for a major flaw: "coil whine"[1]. Very annoying when working in silent environments. Frustratingly random as well - for me, backlight on/off, usb connect/disconnect and scrolling on browsers would change the whine frequency noticably. [2]

It is possible that you can hear something similar from your MBP - however it is very unlikely that this has anything to do with any of the radios.

I miss the good old days when you knew your PC was busy by the HD sounding like a thousand monkeys tap-dancing shakespear.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coil_noise

[2] BTW, Dell denies this issue, claiming it was fixed before 9333. Users disagree: https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/47g46m/lets_investiga...

Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by huuu on Friday July 22, 2016 @03:54AM (#12142286)
"It seems very unlikely that you would be able to sense those frequencies"

Is this true? What about heat radiation for example. We can feel that.

And we can see/sense changes in electromagnetic fields: http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v2/n6/full/ncomms1364.h...

Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by sdkjfwiluf on Thursday July 21, 2016 @02:17PM (#12138838)
please please do it!
Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by elif on Thursday July 21, 2016 @06:48PM (#12140585)
Scientifically: There are people from disparate countries who believe that they suffer from a condition called `EM hypersensitivity`, and are convinced they must live in remote areas away from radios to avoid sickness or headaches. In the handful of published studies that exist, evidence points to an inability of these people to distinguish between exposure and non-exposure in a laboratory setting.

Anecdotally: I can definitely "feel" large AC transmission lines. They do have an audible buzz, however the "feeling" sensation seems distinct to me. My experience is from hiking the Appalachian Trail, which spends days outside of cell phone range, and then crosses regional transmission lines periodically.

So if that observation is not pure illusion or auditory synesthesia (perhaps a fully deaf person can assist here?), it would seem to follow that there is a mechanism to sense EM radiation, and it is simply a matter of whether the perceptive threshold has been met, which would obviously vary from person to person and even from instant to instant.

Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by imglorp on Friday July 22, 2016 @08:58AM (#12143224)
Oh you can definitely feel effects from AC transmission lines. Search for pictures of florescent tubes lighting nearby, without being connected to them. There's plenty of ions getting shoved around to stand your hair up a little if nothing else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitive_coupling

Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by speeder on Friday July 22, 2016 @12:53AM (#12141771)
I remembered now of a church pastor I know, that was an antenna.

The story: this pastor, and only this pastor, would make wireless microphones in certain frequencies act up.

Eventually the audio team found out that somehow this particular pastor worked as an antenna for a particular frequency, matching a nearby radio transmitter, that due to its enormous size would overpower the microphone transmission and corrupt the data.

Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by mkesper on Friday July 22, 2016 @05:39AM (#12142594)
Everybody is an antenna. Probably his size was very "well tuned" to that radio transmitter.
Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by white-flame on Friday July 22, 2016 @03:04AM (#12142160)
One of my friends has a magnetic butt. Any time he carries a mag strip card in his back pocket, it no longer works.

I also knew somebody who had to use wind-up pocket watches, because quartz wristwatches would always skew when he wore them, but would keep time fine when removed.

Weird stuff. Who knows.

Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by stillworks on Friday July 22, 2016 @05:02AM (#12142468)
And how about the wind-up watches ? Did they not skew :-)
Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by dingaling on Thursday July 21, 2016 @02:12PM (#12138803)
People have long reported experiencing radio reception through tooth fillings, usually in the ham and FM bands from 1 to around 100 MHz.

I can imagine cell frequencies would be even more likely due to smaller antennae for the higher frequency.

Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by milesokeefe on Thursday July 21, 2016 @02:54PM (#12139129)
It's not conclusive by any means but Mythbusters tested this and came to the conclusion that tooth filings don't act as an antennae:

http://mythresults.com/episode4

Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by nitrogen on Friday July 22, 2016 @12:51AM (#12141761)
Sometimes the Mythbusters do interesting things, but their ad hoc methods, largely uninformed by theory, are often so haphazard that they prove basically nothing.
Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by imglorp on Friday July 22, 2016 @09:03AM (#12143238)
Well, if they can manage to reproduce a phenomenon, however they stumble on it, it's pretty conclusively confirmed.

There's definitely doubt about their conclusion when they can't reproduce something and then declare it busted -- absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by nitrogen on Friday July 22, 2016 @04:04PM (#12146374)
I can think of one "confirmed" myth involving bacteria that was likely invalidated by improper sample handling. The lab scientist who ran the test appeared to be straining to say that without overstepping her remit on the show.
Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by timthorn on Friday July 22, 2016 @12:50AM (#12141758)
But do some, imperfectly fitting, filings act as a diode?
Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by reitanqild on Thursday July 21, 2016 @03:13PM (#12139274)
At some point during some school work I felt I could sense when someone tried to call me on my parents landline. More then half my life has passed since then and I have never felt close to replicating so I guess most likely my subconsciousness figured out some patterns in who called when.

Another observation though: I worked professionally with radar systems for a while and IIRC one of the oldtimers mentioned one isolated case where a person had been able to tell when a certain radar was transmitting in his sector. (Radars often only transmit in sectors turning away from the population.)

But, to be honest, I haven't heard about it anywhere else and most people who claim to sense that kind of radiation either refuses to undergo blind studies or fail them so if you treat this as anything but an old wives tale you have to do your research :-)

Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by iaskwhy on Friday July 22, 2016 @10:00AM (#12143516)
I'm curious about animals other than humans. Once I was waiting for a call by a window, there was a generous spider on the other side. As I'm very afraid of spiders, I was looking at it while waiting for that call to arrive, it was very calm, barely moving. As soon as the call showed on the screen, silent mode on, no sound or vibration, the spider got completely mad, moving around like crazy so I moved away and the spider stopped moving again. I did experiment moving closer and away repeatedly with the same result. So maybe spiders are sensitive to that frequency?
Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by kleskjr on Thursday July 21, 2016 @07:09PM (#12140686)
Theoretically it might be possible. There are some studies on the effects of electric fields onto single neurons. If an external field can influence the firing of neurons in some way, probably one can train to read these signals.

http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fncel.2014.00...

I have no idea on what field intensities are sufficient to influence the neurons.

Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by spraak on Thursday July 21, 2016 @01:57PM (#12138694)
Very hand wavy of me, but I'd say there is a way that it's true you can sense it. We may not yet know how you can, though. An example that I like to think of is of infrasound. People can't hear it, but there are some who sense when it's moving through them.
Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by kosmic_k on Thursday July 21, 2016 @02:52PM (#12139116)
I don't believe that humans can really sense it on their own. But there was/is a group of "body hackers" who would implant a small shard of a magnet into their finger tip to allow them to feel electromagnetic fields.
Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by vincnetas on Friday July 22, 2016 @03:19AM (#12142202)
Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by greggman on Friday July 22, 2016 @03:45AM (#12142261)
Those stickers are cool. Japan had various dangly things to attach to your feature phone that worked similarly for years. Smartphones generally have no place to attach anything so they seem to have mostly disappeared.
Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by secfirstmd on Thursday July 21, 2016 @01:45PM (#12138604)
That was an old IRA technique to detect certain types of signals nearby. Cheap headphones and a modified radio of sorts. Looking for interference.
Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by 13of40 on Friday July 22, 2016 @03:44AM (#12142260)
I have no idea how this happened, but about twenty years ago, I had an internal PC modem that started randomly speaking to me about fire, brimstone, salvation, etc. Thought I was going off my rocker, until I figured out that it was picking up an AM religious station and playing it through the onboard speaker. My best guess is that somewhere on the circuit board there was a diode and a capacitor just in the right spot and it was using the phone line as an antenna.
Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by secfirstmd on Friday July 22, 2016 @09:16AM (#12143293)
"fire, brimstone, salvation" sounds like you grew up in Northern Ireland alright :)
Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by Qantourisc on Friday July 22, 2016 @02:26AM (#12142024)
Use old style opamps for this btw, they are more susceptible to this, like LM741 NE553, LM883, ... If you are ok with putting your cellphone on the detection box, all you need is an opamp driving a small speaker, and the opamp requires no input. Or you could just hook an antenna on it. If you want I could try, but I have more exiting things to do :)
Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by agumonkey on Thursday July 21, 2016 @01:41PM (#12138576)
These are GSM/3G signals. I never hear anything when transmitting wifi or bluetooth.
Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by Zigurd on Thursday July 21, 2016 @03:31PM (#12139391)
You would need a GSM phone, not just a speaker. Your phone's radio can interfere with electronics like land-line phones. My Nexus 5, on a GSM/LTE network, will cause my Polycom speakerphone to make "dit-dit-dit" noises occasionally (when the network interrogates devices in range) if it is with a few inches of the speakerphone. I suspect people who think they can sense a call coming in are hearing the network looking for their phone in order to offer a call, and not sensing radio waves.
Re:Edward Snowden's New Research Aims to Keep Smartphones fr... by roflchoppa on Thursday July 21, 2016 @04:36PM (#12139854)
its probably signal interference because i get it too. " beep-beep-beep ; beep-beep-beep ; beep-beep-beep ; beeeeeeeeee" then call or text comes through