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Re:Tech workers think Silicon Valley and startups are losing... by yladiz on Saturday July 09, 2016 @02:54PM (#12062741)
While there may be more jobs in the Bay Area, it's always a battle of compromises when you compare it to another place. For example, somewhere like Boston may have less jobs, but the rent/cost of living isn't as extremely high as it is in somewhere like San Francisco or a lot of places in the Bay Area, which means you can save more money for things like retirement, vacation, etc., and it has easy access to somewhere like NYC, meaning it may be a better fit for the people they interviewed. Friends can always be found where you go, and meet ups can be found in varying degrees, so the main appeal to staying in the Bay Area is mostly going to be job opportunities and networking, both of which are available in other cities like Boston, NYC, and Austin.
Re:Tech workers think Silicon Valley and startups are losing... by arjie on Saturday July 09, 2016 @03:36PM (#12062914)
Most of the time it's usually worth living in a higher cost-of-living area for better pay. If you make $100k and spend $20k on rent and expenses, you have $80k left over. If you make $150k (50% more) but double your expenses, you have $110k left over. Your savings/retirement grow more rapidly.

Personally, I love the geography in the Bay, but the money argument works out too. Especially when it comes to things that are practically fixed cost relative to where you live, like flying (often cheaper from big cities) or travelling, or many consumer goods.

Re:Tech workers think Silicon Valley and startups are losing... by hibikir on Saturday July 09, 2016 @04:16PM (#12063107)
Except that for tech workers, the bay is still insane expensive and it does not pay better. I am a senior dev. My last job in St Louis paid 220k. That means you can buy a 4 bedroom house EVERY YEAR.

Expenses are far more than double in the bay. Pay is barely any higher in Top employers... Plenty of senior devs in the bay work for 160k plus options that they might or might not be worth anything, and that they will not be able to afford to buy if they leave, and might not see a liquidity event in 5 years. So they get paid LESS and the job is only worth it if they chain themselves to an employer. Netflix offers a better deal... But then welcome to Netflix's culture.

The money argument just does not work at the top end. My current employer is based in the bay, but a large percentage of the senior talent is remote, precisely because the bay is a really shitty deal for what most tech companies pay.

Just look at mortgages: the difference is not 2x, it's 5x. California taxes are huge. I did the math. For me, it's not even close, and that's assuming Netflix compensation.

Re:Tech workers think Silicon Valley and startups are losing... by morgante on Sunday July 10, 2016 @05:41AM (#12065091)
> My last job in St Louis paid 220k.

You're definitely an outlier.

Every time I've done salary comparisons, SV vastly exceeds every other area especially at the upper end. For most other metros, you have only a handful of employers who are even willing to consider paying a developer >$180k. In SV, you can get competitive auctions going >$300k.

Re:Tech workers think Silicon Valley and startups are losing... by argonaut on Sunday July 10, 2016 @04:40AM (#12064973)
Your numbers are way off. Fresh grads (Bachelors degree) working at Google/Facebook are now making > $160k total compensation.
Re:Tech workers think Silicon Valley and startups are losing... by vasilipupkin on Saturday July 09, 2016 @05:23PM (#12063390)
Forgive me, don't mean to offend you, but there is a reason a house in St Louis costs 200k. When they needed a dystopian city scape for "Escape From NY", they didn't even have to build it, they simply filmed in St Louis. It's just, objectively speaking, not as nice a place to live as Bay Area. Just to put it in perspective, in nice parts of Chicago area, which is much more like St Loius than it is like SF, a house can easily cost anywhere between 600k and several million.
Re:Tech workers think Silicon Valley and startups are losing... by seanp2k2 on Saturday July 09, 2016 @03:54PM (#12062996)
This is how I always explain it to people. I pay 4x rent but make 5.5x as much as my previous living + working situation in a different state from 4 years ago. There is a LOT more left over.
Re:Tech workers think Silicon Valley and startups are losing... by dyarosla on Saturday July 09, 2016 @03:49PM (#12062974)
"80k left over". Someone's forgetting about taxes
Re:Tech workers think Silicon Valley and startups are losing... by jkestner on Saturday July 09, 2016 @05:22PM (#12063387)
Another plus to Texas. No income tax. The property tax is considerably higher, but it's more than offset by home prices.
Re:Tech workers think Silicon Valley and startups are losing... by muzz on Saturday July 09, 2016 @10:53PM (#12064360)
Which is dwarfed by home price appreciation in the Bay Area. I guess that is the elephant in the room
Re:Tech workers think Silicon Valley and startups are losing... by arjie on Sunday July 10, 2016 @02:42AM (#12064773)
Post-tax income. Income tax varies from 0 in WA to considerably more in CA. It's large enough to be worth taking into account when ballparking.
Re:Tech workers think Silicon Valley and startups are losing... by bogomipz on Saturday July 09, 2016 @09:45PM (#12064193)
You definitely don't have anywhere near that left over unless you somehow don't pay your taxes.
Re:Tech workers think Silicon Valley and startups are losing... by arjie on Sunday July 10, 2016 @02:48AM (#12064785)
Feel free to consider the numbers to be post-tax if it helps you understand the point.
Re:Tech workers think Silicon Valley and startups are losing... by titanoceanus on Saturday July 09, 2016 @03:01PM (#12062779)
I know you were only using it as an example, but does Boston have a thriving startup community on par to SF/Austin/NYC?
Re:Tech workers think Silicon Valley and startups are losing... by ef4 on Saturday July 09, 2016 @03:43PM (#12062942)
In venture dollar terms, Boston is 3x bigger than Austin:

http://www.inc.com/associated-press/top-20-cities-for-tech-s...

That list excludes biotech, and Boston is one of the top biotech hubs, so I suspect that would boost it even higher.

Re:Tech workers think Silicon Valley and startups are losing... by titanoceanus on Saturday July 09, 2016 @05:06PM (#12063326)
Interesting, didn't expect DC to be bigger than Austin as well.
Re:Tech workers think Silicon Valley and startups are losing... by Xcelerate on Saturday July 09, 2016 @03:07PM (#12062797)
Over the last year, I've seen Austin go from being mentioned as "second tier" startup city, to now being mentioned alongside SF and NYC. Has it really grown that much in such a short time? As someone just about to finish grad school, I may consider checking it out some more.
Re:Tech workers think Silicon Valley and startups are losing... by natrius on Saturday July 09, 2016 @03:20PM (#12062843)
Depends on what you're looking for. I live in Austin and I love it. There are plenty of interesting companies to work for, and you'll live in a better home in a better neighborhood for your budget. Austinites are generally fantastic, welcoming people. It's probably a good place for you. Here are the exceptions:

1. Read https://breakoutlist.com/. If that argument matches your motivations, go to San Francisco.

2. Do you have a (relatively) niche interest, like VR/AR, machine learning, or blockchains? Go where those companies are: San Francisco and New York.

3. Do you want to experience a city where everything happens? Go to New York.

Otherwise, pick Austin. Maybe Seattle depending on weather preferences and distance from friends and family.

Re:Tech workers think Silicon Valley and startups are losing... by titanoceanus on Saturday July 09, 2016 @05:04PM (#12063317)
I'd chose Austin over Seattle any day, mainly because people really are just so nice in Austin.
Re:Tech workers think Silicon Valley and startups are losing... by muzz on Saturday July 09, 2016 @11:02PM (#12064387)
It's hard to consider Austin as even a second tier startup city-- first tier would be SF/Silcon Valley and second would be NYC and Seattle.

I would be hard-pressed to come up with names of 3 successful startups from Austin, and I think most people would be too.

Re:Tech workers think Silicon Valley and startups are losing... by yladiz on Saturday July 09, 2016 @03:05PM (#12062789)
I'm not sure; I would guess it's on similar levels to somewhere like Austin or NYC since it's in the same grouping as it in the article, but I don't know first hand.