Without considering the result of the referendum, do you know of any other country that would allow visiting citizens from another country to vote on something so serious?

Just for point of discussion since since you only mention living in the UK for over 5 years but if someone had resident for 6 years or over then they could apply to become a UK citizen. For most nationalities (but not US I seem to remember) you could become a joint citizen so wouldn't really have to give anything up in the process.

If becoming a UK citizen is not something someone aspires to then surely a point could be made that that person is not invested in the future of the UK.

If you've only been here for 5 years and want(ed) to become a citizen in the future then you have my sympathies.

For disclosure, I'm British, pro-immigration and voted to remain in the EU; I feel sad today.

> Without considering the result of the referendum, do you know of any other country that would allow visiting citizens from another country to vote on something so serious?

Yes, UK European Union Referendum, 2016. Resident Irish and Commonwealth citizens were allowed to vote.

Scotland Independence Referendum 2014. Resident EU citizens also were allowed to vote.

I applied for citizenship already once but since I couldn’t prove I was in the country the entire time during my first year since my employment was a bit random at the time I got rejected.

My only option is to wait another year so in can prove it even though if they really wanted they could probably check their own records to see my immigration activity.

It's quite difficult to get citizenship I know someone who got a 10 page letter citing a lot of random legal clauses for why she got rejected.

Hell it looked almost like they were trying too hard and felt borderline racist to me but I could be imagining things.

That's interesting. I am in a similar situation as you. But I have been living in the UK a lot longer (since 2005, so 11 years). I'm 20 years old, so I have now been living in the UK for a much longer proportion of my life than in any other country. It's annoying that I don't get to vote in something as important as this.

I'm sure there are plenty of British citizens who are expats living all over Europe, and despite the possibility that they have been living outside the UK for a large proportion of their life they are still eligible to vote. Perhaps I am wrong and there is some rule against this, so please do correct me if that is the case. But if it's not, then how is this fair? Why do they get a say in the decisions a country is making without being a resident of that country?

I will most certainly be attempting to apply for citizenship. Unfortunately the prospect of being rejected, for something which will quite likely be very random and illogical (likely designed to catch as many people out as possible), makes me worried. From the (admittedly quick) research that I have performed to date, it seems that just the act of applying requires a significant sum of money (around a £1000?). If my application gets rejected, then will that money essentially be gone?

On top of all that, I am still a student, it's not easy to part with £1000 under these circumstances.

For what it's worth in the case of these 2 British expats living outside the UK for long periods they lost a legal challenge against their ineligibility.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/28/british-expa...

Good luck with your citizenship application and don't be put off, if you've been here since 2005 I'm sure it will be OK.

But why on earth would you have bothered applying for citizenship since being an EU citizen already gives you the same rights. I think if people had actually thought ahead of time that brexit would win you would have seen a huge uptake in citizenship applications.

I would guess that would come down to how you view the EU.

If you view it as a single nation state or as group of cooperating partner nations.

As a UK citizen I live in Spain and I would never dream of having a say in how the Spanish people should live their lives.

Why not? As an Irish citizen living in the Uk I get to vote in British elections and frankly would find it annoying if I couldn't. Note that I can't vote in Irish elections, but British people resident in Ireland can.

It's their country, not mine. I didn't know about your right to vote in elections but I'm more comfortable with that than I would be about you having a say in the EU referendum.

Sorry I don't get you. I was able to vote in the EU elections, as were commonwealth citizens. What I was taking issue with was the insinuation that it is ridiculous to think that EU citizens should have been able to vote.

OK, I misunderstood. But, to answer your question I didn't intend to imply it was ridiculous but I don't think any EU citizen (regardless of national citizenship) should have a say in the UK's membership of the EU, not least because they would be somewhat biased.

Just my opinion.

It's the common market. Safety regulations on microwaves are EU wide. Is that that big of deal?

(For Euro countries things are big different, but still.)

Yes, the thought that an English person might have a say in how foreigners should live their lives is unthinkable.

I don't know what the actual rules were regarding eligibility, but I am a permanent resident of the UK and not a British citizen, and I voted yesterday.

So some non British citizens were able to vote.

why would they allow foreigners to vote whether or not to kick foreigners out? bizarre.

See that's the problem I'm still being treated as a foreigner even though I've been living here for years and have been contributing to the British NHS service, paying British taxes and in all generating wealth for the country.

All the obligation but I don't get a say on what my new home country should do? Does that seem right to you?

Sorry, but you are a foreigner. Your not a British citizen. In Australia we have people who are Permanent Residents. They have rights to work in Australia, but they are not citizens. They don't get to vote in elections.

It appears to me that as an EU Citizen in Britain you are the equivalent of a PR.

I'm not sure why you feel that the franchise should be further extended to cover people who work in the UK, but are not citizens.

The EU is not a political union. It is an economic union. This has been the problem from the start. People want it both ways when it suits them.

Voting is a privilege of being a citizen.

At least you get access to a bunch of benefits thanks to the UK (used to) being part of EU. I'm a non EU citizen working in the UK and I don't get any of that if I lose my job. I don't have any problem with not being able to vote.

Although funny enough, my spouse is Australian, and being a commonwealth citizen, he can vote here

Why the hell should commonwealth citizens get a vote and not EU citizens?

Them's the rules. General elections in the UK are open to British, Irish and Commonwealth citizens residing in the UK. As set out in the Representation of the People Act 1918.

It's perfectly fine. Just go through the naturalization process that is available to you, swear allegiance to the Queen and you can have your say in the country's future.

Being a citizen is more than being a tax payer or generating wealth.

Isn’t it absurd that as someone who lives somewhere and pay their taxes you can’t have a say on local politics, just because you don’t have a piece of paper that says you have the right nationality? As a French I can live 10 years outside of the country and still vote for the mayor of Paris. You don’t even need to live in Europe to vote for European elections if you have that paper that says you’re “French”.

Or just be colonised by the British at some point in your past..

You've been very unlucky in that the referendum came before you could become a citizen, but I do believe it is right that the poll was restricted to citizens and certain classes of other permanent residents[0].

[0] https://fullfact.org/europe/who-can-vote-eu-referendum/

You contributed to the British NHS and could use their services. It doesn't make you British. Just like buying any other service usually doesn't make you a shareholder in the company which provides it.

I think it would be worth (re?)considering what should meaningfully constitute citizenship. Allegiance to your monarch? Participating in communities? Bringing your country's hono(u)r and values everywhere you go? Committing to a certain number of years of residency? Going to war for some politician's economic or expansionist dreams? Feeling more connected to other citizens who vote with their fear and raw emotions, rather than to some reasonable foreigner?

As it stands, the definition of citizenship from my own practical point of view is, "You've been a permanent resident for long enough, have picked up the language in the process, know a few history facts and the National Anthem, and are willing to give up your previous country's citizenship for us".

With all due respect, that's a lousy set of criteria for whether or not I get to vote in a country that I care about, whose people, policies and politics I follow closely, and that I consider a long-term home for at least a good portion of my life.

Being a citizen is definitely more than being a taxpayer. But then, look at what your criteria would be, and apply that same standard to born citizens. Being born in a certain place, or to a certain set of parents, is obviously a much better criterion to judge people and their connection to a country, is it not?

Obviously that's what people have decided on and continue to uphold. I just find it hard to follow that reasoning.

You aren't fulfilling the obligation of carrying on a UK citizen's genes---states are, to an extent, a mediator between parents and children.

You want to exercise rights without fully committing?

this is how it works anywhere in the world, including your home country, wherever you come from.

and it actually makes sense, citizenship brings a lot of rights.

No it's not. As an Irish citizen resident in the Uk I can vote in Uk elections but not Irish ones.

>..only British citizens were asked.

I'm Irish and I voted, and my wife is from an Asian commonwealth country and she voted. Neither of us are British citizens

A couple of Canadian friends of mine living in England were able to vote. No, not only British citizens were asked.