News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Valve funding VR projects, exclusivity-free, with pre-pai... by sjburt on Friday June 17, 2016 @08:19PM (#11926343)
I think Oculus's attitude is actually fairly sensible for the position they are in..

First, the success of VR is an existential risk for Oculus. This is not true for Valve; Valve just doesn't want to be left behind (at least at a business level, I have no doubt their engineering organization wants to continue to be the tech leader).

Second, they are very concerned about whether people have good VR experiences, because the well has been poisoned by people's memories of 90s VR, Cardboard, concerns about motion sickness, overhype, headsets looking dumb, etc.

Third, they're a fairly small organization, and they already have to support engagements with GPU vendors, OS, as well, as getting their hardware built and supported. Having to support other hardware on their platform (especially as there is a race to the bottom between HTC, Razer, etc) is a huge additional burden. They do have financial resources from Facebook, but you can't just throw money at an engineering org, you have to scale carefully.

So to make VR is successful, they have to make sure that people have good experiences, but they have a small team. Buying exclusives makes perfect sense for them: it's a way to leverage Facebook's financial resources, and since the titles are exclusive they can focus on making those titles work as well as possible on a SW/HW stack that they own.

Re:Valve funding VR projects, exclusivity-free, with pre-pai... by cm3 on Friday June 17, 2016 @08:53PM (#11926458)
No, they don't have to make them Oculus exclusive to support VR devs and fund the development of more titles.

VR headsets on the PC are just another device like your keyboard, mouse and monitor. I haven't heard of an LG-monitor-exclusive game before, so why should it exist for VR?

It's different on consoles.

Firs there was DRM and now the insistence on exclusivity. For some reason Oculus seems to have forgotten their promise of an open ecosystem, and I hope it's not some Facebook influence Palmer is unable to fight against, and if that's case, I hope Carmack isn't getting pissed. Remember, John is the driving force behind GPL'ing all the engines/games at id software. It's reasonable to doubt any future GPL id software release since John left.

Between the Vive providing an arguably better experience (at a hefty price) and Oculus alienating PC gamers left and right, I have no idea what's going on in their management department. It looks like the wrong people got control.

Re:Valve funding VR projects, exclusivity-free, with pre-pai... by zamalek on Saturday June 18, 2016 @05:47AM (#11927771)
> It's different on consoles.

I'm exclusively a PC gamer and I'd even argue that this is false. Exclusives are bad for the industry and bad for gamers in general. It doesn't matter which platform you can afford/desire.

Even PSVR might be coming to PC. Many Xbox games are coming to PC. The industry seems to be turning its back on exclusivity. What does Facebook do? "Naaaa, we can make exclusivity work."

When industry leaders are aborting a strategy, it isn't a good strategy. What Facebook is doing makes sense only 5 years ago.

Re:Valve funding VR projects, exclusivity-free, with pre-pai... by cm3 on Saturday June 18, 2016 @06:17AM (#11927827)
I'm with you, so let me expand on what I meant: On consoles it's different because some studious exclusively develop for Playstation or Xbox, meaning they don't even have the tech to just compile a PC or Xbox version if they wanted to. Now, this is a the result of being Playstation exclusive for years, but I'm sure they get paid enough to not worry about losing out on the other markets.

I totally agree that for gamers it's a loss. Most skip games on that other platform, but some grudgingly buy an Xbox or Playstation just for one game.

Another very stupid tactic is making PC gamers wait like Rockstar does with GTA. This is especially bad given the history of the GTA games and them being PC first back in the day.

Re:Valve funding VR projects, exclusivity-free, with pre-pai... by TwoBit on Saturday June 18, 2016 @03:37AM (#11927483)
TVs are all nearly the same. Currently VR headsets are not. If you disagree then I suggest you head on over to the reddit Oculus or Vive forums.
Re:Valve funding VR projects, exclusivity-free, with pre-pai... by seanwilson on Saturday June 18, 2016 @03:53AM (#11927511)
> TVs are all nearly the same. Currently VR headsets are not. If you disagree then I suggest you head on over to the reddit Oculus or Vive forums.

Don't they have both have very similar specs and hardware (ignoring input for now)? Also, the whole point of drivers/SDKs is to abstract hardware differences away so software can work on a variety of hardware. It doesn't strike me that they are so different the drivers/SDKs can't cope with the differences. Given Revive lets Vive users play Oculus locked down games and both the Oculus and Vive are supported on Steam it's clear their hardware differences isn't a huge deal.

Re:Valve funding VR projects, exclusivity-free, with pre-pai... by cm3 on Saturday June 18, 2016 @07:16AM (#11927992)
Same with GPUs where the driver is what abstracts away most differences. I'm not sure what the argument is.
Re:Valve funding VR projects, exclusivity-free, with pre-pai... by agildehaus on Friday June 17, 2016 @09:08PM (#11926511)
Oculus is backed by Facebook. You cannot in any way frame them to be small, or at any existential risk.
Re:Valve funding VR projects, exclusivity-free, with pre-pai... by cma on Friday June 17, 2016 @09:53PM (#11926630)
And even ignoring Facebook I think Oculus actually has more employees than Valve at this point.

Zuckerberg mentions the number in this stream, I think it was around 700 or so employees, but can't remember for sure: http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/137176-watch-mark-zuckerberg...

Re:Valve funding VR projects, exclusivity-free, with pre-pai... by pyronite on Friday June 17, 2016 @11:18PM (#11926882)
In the video Mark Zuckerberg says "we have about 400 people working on this now" at 0:50 in.
Re:Valve funding VR projects, exclusivity-free, with pre-pai... by cma on Saturday June 18, 2016 @02:44AM (#11927386)
Thanks for finding that. Wikipedia says Valve had 330 as of 2013, so Valve most likely slightly outnumbers them. Hardly David vs. Goliath in headcount/organization size though. Though of course you have to be aware HTC is the production scale out.
Re:Valve funding VR projects, exclusivity-free, with pre-pai... by jn1234 on Saturday June 18, 2016 @04:48AM (#11927624)
It's laughable how outclassed Oculus is by Valve. If Valve were to release Half-Life 3 as an exclusive on Vive, Oculus as a gaming headset would be toast.

Valve has some of the most valuable franchises (Dota 2, Team Fortress, Portal etc) around and are under-utilizing them, not to mention they operate the largest PC gaming distribution platform.

Re:Valve funding VR projects, exclusivity-free, with pre-pai... by SXX on Friday June 17, 2016 @08:27PM (#11926369)
By now Oculus VR is clearly larger organization than Valve and likely only small portion of Valve works on anything VR-related. So I just not sure you can call them "small" anymore.
Re:Valve funding VR projects, exclusivity-free, with pre-pai... by usrusr on Saturday June 18, 2016 @05:47AM (#11927770)
How much of the Vive is Valve and how much is HTC? Valve was very lucky to find a hardware partner content with not trying to establish their own content delivery platform.
Re:Valve funding VR projects, exclusivity-free, with pre-pai... by mpeg on Sunday June 19, 2016 @04:01PM (#11934426)
Can hardly call it luck when Valve runs the largest PC game content delivery platform in the world.

They can definitely set the terms of that kind of partnership.

Re:Valve funding VR projects, exclusivity-free, with pre-pai... by JetSpiegel on Friday June 17, 2016 @08:57PM (#11926476)
> Third, they're a fairly small organization

Yeah, I'm playing the world's smallest violin for Facebook, of all companies. THEY ARE TOO SMALL!

Re:Valve funding VR projects, exclusivity-free, with pre-pai... by flamethroeaway on Saturday June 18, 2016 @06:26AM (#11927850)
Give them a break they only have a 300billion market cap.
Re:Valve funding VR projects, exclusivity-free, with pre-pai... by sambe on Saturday June 18, 2016 @06:03AM (#11927795)
It's sad but predictable to see your comment downvoted for offering an interesting perspective. Especially considering most responses are sarcastic "yeah Facebook is small", ignoring your explanation. I'd have thought most here acknowledge your point that you can't arbitrarily add people/cash to a team.

In general I don't like exclusivity, but I don't downvote for a well-intended, thoughtful contribution. I do think you ignore the more obvious motivation of them wanting a larger cut of the price.