News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by tetromino_ on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @01:15PM (#11903520)
Your kids are your kids and it's your choice how to raise them given your financial and time constraints, but teaching a 3-year-old to associate comfort and happiness with unhealthy food doesn't strike me as the wisest decision. When they are old enough and responsible enough for their bodies, they might decide on their own that they enjoy nicotine, corn syrup, salt, starch, and fry oil - but why bias them towards suboptimal choices so early on?
Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by Erik816 on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @01:46PM (#11903820)
You are pretty much describing the liberal guilt trip that is keeping him from occasionally taking his kids to McDonalds. It's pretty clear it's not the healthiest thing you can eat. It's also probably true that you should teach your kids that if, once in a while, they eat something that is not optimally nutritious (say, on a road trip or as a special treat) they are not going to die.
Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by redthrow on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @03:59PM (#11904869)
Yeah, Don Gorske ate nothing but Big Mac for many years, and he's still alive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Gorske

I feel like if people skip sugary drinks and large fries they are eating better at McDonald's than most people eat at home.

http://www.marketplace.org/2013/07/03/sustainability/freakon...

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by zepto on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @01:52PM (#11903875)
He's not talking about once in a while - he's talking about several times a week.
Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by smokey_the_bear on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @01:59PM (#11903932)
We take them approximately once a month.
Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by zepto on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @02:08PM (#11904006)
How often would you go without the stigma?
Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by smokey_the_bear on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @02:28PM (#11904159)
Maybe twice a month. We typically stop there only when traveling now. We might stroll to the one a half mile from our house for dinner once in awhile otherwise.

McDonald's isn't a large part of our mostly wholesome diet. I feel good about what my kids eat on a day to day basis.

Also, I'm the mother. It's not really germane to the issue, but everyone in this thread assumed otherwise.

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by zepto on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @05:38PM (#11905521)
It crossed my mind that you didn't specify gender. I just copied what the previous poster had used assuming that they knew from other threads. Sorry for making that assumption.

I'm curious about how the stigma actually plays out - do people you know actually say things to you about it? Would you actually experience more negative interactions if you just did what you want, or has it been internalized because you know people would disapprove?

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by smokey_the_bear on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @06:37PM (#11905894)
It is just internalized for me enough so that we usually make another choice for dinner. Also I don't really want the kids to go to preschool and say they had McDonalds for dinner, at about the same level that I don't want to send them to preschool in a dirty shirt.

Once we hadn't been to the grocery store in unusually long, and spent the weekend eating the things in the freezer and the back of the cupboards. We mentioned to the kids that we were out of food. My son went to preschool the next day and congratulated his teachers on always having food available.

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by balls187 on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @02:33PM (#11904195)
In all fairness, Smokey was a male bear.
Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by pc86 on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @02:46PM (#11904298)
Do you feel good about berating someone on the internet for going to McDonald's?
Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by dang on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @06:48PM (#11905975)
I understand why it seemed that way but in this case the charitable interpretation, that zepto was genuinely curious about what the OP meant about stigma, seems also to be the correct one.
Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by zepto on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @05:35PM (#11905506)
Can you point to one thing I've said that has anything to do with berating?
Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by balls187 on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @01:58PM (#11903926)
> Your kids are your kids and it's your choice how to raise them.

Full stop. No need to continue with the rest of your judgements.

Parenting is a very hard job, and it's only made worse by all the parents (and even worse--non-parents) that want to make judgements.

Being a parent, I now have a profound respect and appreciation for my parents (especially my mother). Things weren't always great, but they did the best they could.

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by dimino on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @03:39PM (#11904720)
What kind of attitude is this, really?

Is parenting some sacred thing, immune from analysis or criticism? Does parenting happen outside the realm of logic or reason, where all decisions are good, and any attempt at measurement or objectivity is worthless?

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by balls187 on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @05:56PM (#11905652)
> What kind of attitude is this, really?

"Good internet citizenship."

Keep your criticism relevant to the topic, which was: McDonald's used as a community center in poor neighborhoods. Not, how to teach your kids good eating habits.

> Is parenting some sacred thing, immune from analysis or criticism?

Parenting MY kids, most definitely is sacred.

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by dimino on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @06:04PM (#11905699)
Sorry friend, but when you told a story about how you parent your kids, you put your parenting within the purview of the topic.

There is nothing sacred about your parenting that makes it above scrutiny. Nothing whatsoever.

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by balls187 on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @06:18PM (#11905792)
I'm not your friend, buddy.

Also, I never told a story about how I parent my kids.

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by dimino on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @06:38PM (#11905907)
This isn't reddit, no need to meme, and I meant the royal "you". When one brings up one's parenting strategy, it becomes topical.
Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by nikdaheratik on Wednesday June 15, 2016 @12:16AM (#11907140)
Maybe because most parents, especially new parents, already get enough of that "friendly advice" from strangers on the street, in the shops, at the park, and everywhere else.
Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by dsfyu404ed on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @02:16PM (#11904059)
No, not full stop. Just because raising kids, being a police officer, digging a ditch is "hard work" doesn't free someone from having that work criticized.
Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by balls187 on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @02:19PM (#11904083)
Strawman Argument.
Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by gh-lfneu28 on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @02:32PM (#11904186)
Actually everyone should be free from being criticized, except for the people with the authority to do so. That goes double for people doing hard work and triple for people doing work that every joe shmoe on the internet thinks himself an expert on.

In other words, my spouse can criticize my parenting everyone else can go frack themselves. Full stop.

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by dimino on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @03:41PM (#11904730)
No one is free from criticism, what they're free from is being forced to listen to it. No one's making anyone else here participate in the discussion.

Performing hard work doesn't make you immune from doing that work poorly, and it's kind of alarming to me that this insular attitude is so popular on HN.

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by gh-lfneu28 on Wednesday June 15, 2016 @11:18AM (#11909821)
> they're free from is being forced to listen to it

That's what I've called 'free from being critisized' so yeah. Not sure what you mean by "No one is free from criticism". If you refer to rights of other people to express their critical opinion - sure, let them run their mouths in their own space.

The problems begin (as usual) when A is being forced to listen to B's opinions either because A cannot move away or because Bs are too numerous. That's where I think that B should have to shut up. "Your freedom to fo X ends etc etc". Participating in hard work is an aggravating factor here, meaning B should have to shut the f up right now or be forcefully removed.

In case of doubt just imaging an idiot shouting their mouth at the working surgeon.

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by dimino on Wednesday June 15, 2016 @11:57AM (#11910092)
Sorry, numerousness or locality are not criteria for removing a person's right to expression.

A needs to learn to tolerate B, basically. A isn't performing surgery, A is trying to write comments on HN.

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by gh-lfneu28 on Wednesday June 15, 2016 @12:31PM (#11910295)
> A is trying to write comments on HN

Huh? The topic was about people doing hard work. Writing comments is easy.

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by dimino on Thursday June 16, 2016 @01:01AM (#11914115)
The topic was McDonald's being used as community centers in poor neighborhoods.
Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by tetromino_ on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @02:54PM (#11904367)
> Being a parent, I now have a profound respect and appreciation for my parents (especially my mother). Things weren't always great, but they did the best they could.

Dude, I was growing up in the dying days of the Soviet Union, with empty shelves and lines and ration cards, and growing vegetables on a little private plot to make it through the winter without vitamin deficiency. I know very well what it's like to try to provide the best you can for your family when the circumstances don't allow you to provide much at all.

But there's an enormous difference between going to a fast food place because the kids are hungry and the fridge is empty and that's the place which is open and nearby and affordable, and regularly bringing kids to a fast food place just because I like the ambience.

And as a general principle, if I am not open to criticism and judgment of others, I am hobbling my ability improve. In any aspect of life. Work or scholarship or raising a child.

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by balls187 on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @03:16PM (#11904550)
I think you missed my point.

OP: shared personal experience related to topic of the article.

You: shared off-topic comment that teaching kids to eat at McD's is not good.

Me: Directly--don't share your judgements on how the OP chooses to parent (also off-topic).

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by bluedino on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @01:32PM (#11903689)
My siblings and I all got the 'bad' happy meal as a reward. Hamburger/nuggets, fries, Coca-cola or Sprite. Oh, and it came with the happy meal box full of activities and an actual toy. None of us developed unhealthy relationships with food or even became overweight.
Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by bleachedsleet on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @02:04PM (#11903970)
"I've never known anyone addicted to heroin so I know heroin addiction must never happen..."
Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by jonknee on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @01:16PM (#11903532)
> the cheeseburger, apple slices, and chocolate milk

You could do much worse.

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by tobltobs on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @01:47PM (#11903833)
> You could do much worse.

How?

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by jonknee on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @02:56PM (#11904385)
Larger portions, fried foods, soda, etc. You are being purposefully difficult if you can't figure this out on your own.
Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by tobltobs on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @04:19PM (#11905010)
Fried food? Seriously? Do you believe McDonalds has a backroom in their shops where they have a bakery for their apple slices, and in their backyard they are growing apple trees and some lucky cows are wandering between the trees, so they have fresh milk for their chocolate milk?

You are purposely believing all this complete marketing BS so you don't have to feel like a junky if you eat this industrial trashfood.

And I can really not figure out for myself what could be more trashy than McDonalds food. Maybe living solely on peanut butter sandwiches and chocolate, but maybe even that would be better, as they are not full of flavor enhancer.

And actually I am not a McDonalds hater, I love to eat their hamburger. But it's like drinking beer, it's a drug, not food.

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by corin_ on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @05:13PM (#11905357)
Given you basically said "what could be worse than a cheeseburger, apple and chocolate milk?" here's an easier answer - swap the cheeseburger for a double cheeseburger. There's a nice simple example of "could be worse", for you, without even thinking about different menu items available.

The apple: it's raw apple cut into slices... not fried, nor from a fictional bakery that their marketing apparently makes you think they want people to believe.

What does where the cows are milked matter, judge nutritional value between chocolate milk and sugar-filled soda. Maybe your judgement of chocolate milk is negative (sure, it's not the healthiest drink in the world) and I can't say I've ever looked up it's nutrional information, but... it's flavoured milk. It comes from cows, somewhere.

If you can't understand the logic that McDonalds serve lots of types of food and that some of them are more healthy and less healthy compared to each other then I'm not sure how to explain it better.

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by tobltobs on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @05:45PM (#11905583)
Sorry to disturb those dreams about fresh cut apple slices. They are not freshly cut, they are cutted and treated with chemicals in a factory, packed into plastic and might be lying around for up to two weeks before some parents give them their kids to alleviate their guilty conscience for taking their kids to a drug food shop.

Same for the chocolate milk. But I leave it up to you to find out what great inventions of the chemical industry enable this always same creamy taste without clumped together cacao.

And the argument about bigger portions has something to do with eating habits, but not with healthy food.

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by ac2u on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @06:35PM (#11905889)
I feel like you're playing to the knee-jerk reaction crowd that will decide you've won the argument through buzzword bingo, the buzzword in this case being "chemicals".

Saying a foodstuff has come into contact with a chemical somewhere in the process means nothing without more information, yet you expect it to be taken as an automatic negative.

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by jonknee on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @06:45PM (#11905950)
There isn't a big conspiracy at McDonalds, the sliced apples are real food:

http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/food/product_nutrition.snacks...

> Ingredients: Apples, Calcium Ascorbate (a blend of Calcium and Vitamin C to maintain freshness and color).

Scary stuff! I guess the wax that is on apples at the grocery store is missing, but hey it still seems like real food to me.

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by corin_ on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @05:53PM (#11905640)
I never said the apple slices were fresh. Of course they're not, they come pre-packaged, who would think they were fresh? That doesn't change the fact that they are slices of apple, and that they're not fried or baked. I'm replying to your delusion that you can't get worse than that meal, I'm not claiming it's the best or most nutritional meal in the world.
Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by tobltobs on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @06:19PM (#11905798)
> I'm replying to your delusion that you can't get worse than that meal,

And that is wrong, it doesn't matter what you eat at MacDonalds. You can swap the coke against "chocolate milk" to reduce sugar, therefore you get more emulsifier and more preservative. You can swap french fries for apple slices to get less fat, but therefore you get another mix of chemicals without any vitamins left. And all this discussion when the Deli around the corner sells fresh apples ...

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by lorenzhs on Thursday June 16, 2016 @12:03PM (#11917006)
> You can swap french fries for apple slices to get less fat, but therefore you get another mix of chemicals without any vitamins left.

That's quite an amusing statement, given that the "mix of chemicals" you're criticising is Vitamin C and Calcium.

I don't like McDonald's either, but they're not the personified evil you insinuate them to be.

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by city41 on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @06:17PM (#11905786)
The apple slices are literally raw, unsweetened, sliced apples. Not a baked item.
Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by tetromino_ on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @01:23PM (#11903596)
Certainly you could do worse. But you could also do better. Teaching young kids to avoid the high-sugar, high-salt, brightly-colored food trap is hard, but I have seen first-hand families that have done it.
Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by erikpukinskis on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @02:56PM (#11904393)
The thing is, if they were taking their kids to the local diner, the food would be just as unhealthy but no one would comment.

That's how you know the McDonalds hate is really about judging and not about health.

It's like people who only care about rape when there's a Muslim suspect. If they really cared about it, they would talk about it outside of the context of religion.

Re:In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto co... by noahth on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @01:35PM (#11903709)
an argument that assumes parenting is about always making the wisest decision is an argument that misunderstands the reality of parenthood