News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by avar on Saturday May 14, 2016 @03:33AM (#11694952)
A few things:

Everything not being 4:3 screens. I found it better for programming than everything being cinematic screens.

Back when monitor manufacturers were racing to make better / higher resolution monitors, instead of just leaving it at 1080p / 4k / whatever the current standard good enough for movies is.

The GMail interface before it started auto-converting the textarea to HTML when edited externally.

Console gaming when it Just Worked. Nowadays when I pop in a game it's update this and update that, long loading times etc.

E-Mail before we lost the "text should be text and not goddamn HTML" war.

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by lillesvin on Saturday May 14, 2016 @05:25AM (#11695273)
> E-Mail before we lost the "text should be text and not goddamn HTML" war.

Keep fighting the good fight. I still use Mutt and haven't gotten around to finding a way to handle Office365 meeting invites and such. I'm also the only one in the company that connects to Slack via an IRC client (irssi).

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by copperx on Saturday May 14, 2016 @11:45AM (#11696591)
Programmers ought to get together and create CLI versions of clients of popular protocols (Exchange, for one).
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by ams6110 on Saturday May 14, 2016 @02:05PM (#11697314)
I manage my email in emacs, though it's delivered to the Exchange server at work. I deliver it to a local maildir with fetchmail, and use notmuch to index it. Searching is better and faster than GMail IMO.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by lillesvin on Saturday May 14, 2016 @04:00PM (#11697799)
There's actually a surprising number of CLI implementations of popular protocols out there. I recently started using Hangups (https://github.com/tdryer/hangups) for Hangouts. And there's one for Play Music too although I can't recall its name at the moment.

Only thing I'm really, really missing now is a CLI for KeePass, but I'm considering writing one myself in Go, since I've been looking for something to do for practice in Go anyway.

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by jeauxlb on Sunday May 15, 2016 @08:49PM (#11703566)
Check out Davmail (http://davmail.sourceforge.net/). I use this with offlineimap to run mutt with an Exchange installation; apart from calendar invitations, it works quite well.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by Karunamon on Saturday May 14, 2016 @02:00PM (#11697292)
Davmail can get you most of the way there for Exchange. Definitely a product I would buy if it were commercialized.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by kome on Saturday May 14, 2016 @04:19AM (#11695081)
> E-Mail before we lost the "text should be text and not goddamn HTML" war.

I am still fighting, and the war is not over.

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by bitwize on Saturday May 14, 2016 @08:38AM (#11695833)
You're pretty much the equivalent of the Japanese soldier who got stranded in the Philippines and kept fighting WWII until the 1970s.

HTML mail won. If you work in an office they will use either Exchange or Google Apps; Exchange's default configuration is a fuck you to text-based mail clients.

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><font size=2 face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: Arial">Hope you like <i></i><i>all</i> your email looking like this, because the only response you&#8217;ll get from your sysadmin should you decide to complain is a snippy remark along the lines of &#8220;try using an email client from this century&#8221;. Don&#8217;t worry, with enough practice you won&#8217;t even see the code &#8212; just blonde, brunette, redhead&#8320; <font size=2 face="Wingdings"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: Wingdings">J</span></font></span></font></p>

The war is over, friend. Come on home.

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by tremendo on Saturday May 14, 2016 @10:59AM (#11696394)
Perhaps, but why give up if you're not missing any benefit? I still pretty much can rely on something not being readable as plain text also not being worth my time.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by bitwize on Saturday May 14, 2016 @05:46PM (#11698180)
Failure to read emails from your boss or coworkers, irrespective of whether they've been turned into HTML hash, might get you disciplined or fired. So there's not no benefit.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by ams6110 on Saturday May 14, 2016 @02:15PM (#11697363)
That goes the same for websites that aren't readable in text-based or non-javascript browsers.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by Retric on Saturday May 14, 2016 @08:56AM (#11695885)
You can just pipe your email through something that removes HTML.

Outlook seems to just ignore line breaks by default. But, there is probably a mime type to get around that.

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by jeremysmyth on Sunday May 15, 2016 @06:32AM (#11700320)
HTML ignores line breaks. If you're using plain text, the format=flowed header is what ignores line breaks. Not all clients support it.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by bitwize on Sunday May 15, 2016 @11:52AM (#11701353)
It's not just Outlook.

Exchange adds this mush to emails which were sent in plain text.

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by qb45 on Sunday May 15, 2016 @02:46AM (#11699804)
> The war is over, friend. Come on home.

Actually, remote Philippines are still fighting. Try sending your patches in HTML to some FOSS project's mailing list :)

I've even been at a place where Exchange/Outlook were used for that.

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by sotojuan on Tuesday May 17, 2016 @09:00AM (#11713205)
> You're pretty much the equivalent of the Japanese soldier who got stranded in the Philippines and kept fighting WWII until the 1970s.

Never hear about this—thanks for the entertaining research. For those interested, it might be this guy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroo_Onoda

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by Styx- on Saturday May 14, 2016 @10:46AM (#11696316)
Thanks for the laugh, that was well done.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by ams6110 on Saturday May 14, 2016 @02:13PM (#11697355)
I read my email in emacs, and use w3m to format the HTML from Exchange and Gmail users. Works really well. Does a good job with tables too.

I want to try using new emacs web browser (eww) instead but haven't had the time.

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by guyzmo on Saturday May 14, 2016 @04:45AM (#11695137)
So am I... at some point for colleagues that were telling me that my mail looked bad because text (and they weren't using fixed width font), I was sending them text converted to html by a script, so it is contained in a <pre></pre> :->
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by function_seven on Saturday May 14, 2016 @05:35AM (#11695300)
Haha, imposing your plain text will on the HTMLers. I love it.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by qw on Saturday May 14, 2016 @06:19AM (#11695435)
The main problem In the business world is Outlook. For some reason they decided to ignore line breaks in plain text by default, which makes plain text a broken mess
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by MichaelGG on Saturday May 14, 2016 @11:52AM (#11696634)
That reason probably is good. Some mail clients wrap at 78 chars. Result is that the text doesn't flow. Larger window and text doesn't fill, smaller and you get staggered lines. For most Outlook users, it makes sense to convert this into something more readable.

I think there is an option to change its behaviour.

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by Teckla on Saturday May 14, 2016 @11:47AM (#11696612)
The main problem In the business world is Outlook. For some reason they decided to ignore line breaks in plain text by default, which makes plain text a broken mess

There's an option in Outlook to turn that "feature" off, but of course, nobody does.

It's a horrible, terrible default feature of Outlook.

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by ams6110 on Saturday May 14, 2016 @02:18PM (#11697378)
It's also their problem. They send me HTML and I have to deal with that. I send them plain text, so they can do likewise.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by Freak_NL on Saturday May 14, 2016 @12:51PM (#11696946)
A lot of mail clients actually send both HTML and text (as they should), so if you configure your mail client to prefer text, almost all incoming mail will be presented to you as text. Now configure it to only send out plain text, and you are no longer part of the problem. :)
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by pmontra on Saturday May 14, 2016 @05:35AM (#11695302)
4:3 screens: yes, but on laptops. Given an equally wide laptop 4:3 gives much more space to work on. I wonder if there would be space for large touchpads but the Thinkpad/stick fans won't care. My personal sweetspot on laptops was 16:10.

For standalone monitors, nobody was making screens as wide (in cm) as the ones we have now, at a reasonable price. You could have two 4:3 monitors side by side which is 8:3 or 16:6, worse than 16:9 for the same width.

I add: 15" laptops without numberpads (Macs don't count, I don't like OSX and their keyboards and the buttonless touchpad)

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by paol on Saturday May 14, 2016 @06:10AM (#11695404)
My sweet spot for laptops is 4:3 @ 14in, but 16:10 @ 15.6in is a reasonable choice as well.

16:9 on the other hand has no place in anything but very large desktop monitors (say 27in and above). Whenever I have to use someone's 13in notebook - inevitably 16:9, even expensive ones - it makes me want to scream. It's like peering through a mailbox slot.

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by r00fus on Sunday May 15, 2016 @12:38AM (#11699456)
One of the great things about Mac laptops... The default 16:10 everywhere (with the exception of the mba11").
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by jlgaddis on Saturday May 14, 2016 @09:34AM (#11696035)
This is one of my two biggest pet peeves when it comes to e-mail.

Top posting is the other.

> E-Mail before we lost the "text should be text and not goddamn HTML" war.

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by ams6110 on Saturday May 14, 2016 @02:11PM (#11697345)
I have mostly succumbed to top-posting, but I do generally try to trim the quoted message history to only the one I'm responding to. That way in a long thread I don't end up sending a ten-page message that only include one sentence of new content.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by rsync on Sunday May 15, 2016 @12:40AM (#11699461)
"Everything not being 4:3 screens. I found it better for programming than everything being cinematic screens."

It may interest you to know that there is a new, modern, 1:1 screen for sale from a reputable company, today - the EIZO FlexScan EV2730QFX:

http://www.amazon.com/FlexScan-EV2730QFX-Monitor-1920x1920-E...

Please, please buy one (or three) of these, as I did, and place your dollar votes for screen innovation like this.

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by rayiner on Sunday May 15, 2016 @11:16AM (#11701207)
But wide-screen laptops are just the right size for side-by-side 80x25 emacs windows.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by J_Darnley on Tuesday May 17, 2016 @09:26AM (#11713400)
Thank you for the suggestion. If I ever have that kind of money for a display I will get one.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by akerro on Saturday May 14, 2016 @05:25AM (#11695276)
>Everything not being 4:3 screens. I found it better for programming than everything being cinematic screens.

This! I concentrate much better on old laptop with 4:3 screen. I have one single window open, no browser, not documentation, no chat windows, no email. The laptop wouldn't even handle all programs at the same time, 512MB of RAM.

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by Figs on Saturday May 14, 2016 @09:44AM (#11696080)
I've found that I actually really like using rotated 9:16 portrait mode monitors for writing code in a dual or triple monitor setup. It's very helpful to be able to see 80+ lines at a time.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by qb45 on Sunday May 15, 2016 @02:58AM (#11699821)
But 1080x1920 is stupidly narrow. On 1440x1920 (4:3) you could place two windows side by side without much effort. It barely becomes possible at 1200 (16:10), though not with the font size I'd be long-term comfortable with.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by nickjj on Saturday May 14, 2016 @09:27AM (#11696003)
I still use a Dell FP2007 20" 1600x1200 monitor [1] as a second monitor. I remember making sure the serial numbers matched the IPS version too. I've been using it full time for 8 years and it still runs flawlessly.

[1] http://www.amazon.com/Dell-Ultrasharp-1600x1200-Monitor-Heig...

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by altano on Sunday May 15, 2016 @09:11PM (#11703637)
6 months ago I bought 6 of these off ebay for ~$300 and a cheap 3x2 monitor stand. It's a pretty awesome, if tenuous, setup.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by davb on Saturday May 14, 2016 @08:11AM (#11695750)
> Console gaming when it Just Worked. Nowadays when I pop in a game it's update this and update that, long loading times etc.

This might be about to change with Nintendo's upcoming NX system rumoured to use ROM cartridges rather than optical media. The cart-based 3DS has loading times comparable to the Mega Drive or SNES (negligible). And the cartridge distribution model is great for this with sub-par internet connections.

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by mathgeek on Saturday May 14, 2016 @08:29AM (#11695800)
There were still be patches and online services involved. You can also bet that they won't eschew online purchases and digital downloads. I know I won't buy it if I have to go back to physical media.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by davb on Saturday May 14, 2016 @09:19AM (#11695978)
Oh absolutely, and that's the way it is with the 3DS. But keep in mind that Nintendo home consoles have always been the favoured split-screen multiplayer - they're the consoles you play when your friends come round (and they work equally well for solo gamers). Consequently, forced online patches aren't really as obvious as they are on Xbox or Playstation.

On the 3DS, the only forced patches that affect me are OS patches that I'm required to install in order to access the eShop.

The mixed physical/digital distribution model for the 3DS is my favourite of all models right now. You can buy a cartridge, requiring no installation or online activation (which you can readily loan or sell later on), or you can download games from the eShop which, once activated, doesn't require any online call home. Ever. You can transfer games between consoles (e.g. during an upgrade) by going online and initiating a license transfer.

It's a great balance.

My one gripe is region locking. I hope that goes away (and rumours indicate it might). I waited a year for Fire Emblem Fates to come over from Japan and then it hits the US months before we get it in Europe..

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by cableshaft on Tuesday May 17, 2016 @11:14AM (#11714317)
If I remember correctly, a major limiting factor of cartridges is the time it takes to get them manufactured. If I remember right only one company was allowed to make those official cartridges, and you had to reserve a specific timeslot 8 months or more in advance, that you couldn't slip that date, in order to get your cartridges made.

I can't remember if I read this or if I was told this by veterans of the game industry (I used to work with some guys that have been in the industry for a long time). I think I was told this, but there's probably articles that mention this out there somewhere.

Anyway, they said it was a nightmare for scheduling, and sometimes you'd have a game finished but have to sit on it for months because that's the earliest you could get a slot reserved.

I think this is still an issue with the 3DS (I think they were complaining about it for DS at the time, why they didn't really want to work on another DS game).

Not sure if publishers would be as keen on this nowadays, especially compared to the speed and immediacy of the mobile world. Might make them stay with Microsoft and Sony, yet again.

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by mathgeek on Sunday May 15, 2016 @02:26PM (#11702074)
> Consequently, forced online patches aren't really as obvious as they are on Xbox or Playstation.

Actually, one of the first Wii U firmware updates bricked a sizable number of consoles that had to be replaced by Nintendo (sizable meaning there were forum threads discussing the issue). My original console went through that process. Haven't had any such issues with the other two consoles this gen, luckily (and yet).

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by digi_owl on Saturday May 14, 2016 @09:58AM (#11696142)
Given the price pr gig of flash chips these days, they can put the base game on ROM and put in a solid space for saves, patches and DLCs alongside.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by mathgeek on Sunday May 15, 2016 @02:28PM (#11702079)
Care to elaborate on what point you were addressing here? I'm not sure what you were responding to.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by ZenoArrow on Saturday May 14, 2016 @08:21AM (#11695778)
I strongly suspect the NX will be based on a game streaming service like OnLive. If you look at most of the rumours with that in mind, they make more sense.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by davb on Saturday May 14, 2016 @09:12AM (#11695949)
I very much doubt it. They'd be cutting off massive markets where internet connectivity isn't consistently good (most of the world). Sure, Nintendo are struggling to find their place in the home console market right now but they're more conservative when it comes to changing the distribution/sales model.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by ZenoArrow on Saturday May 14, 2016 @10:19AM (#11696223)
> "They'd be cutting off massive markets where internet connectivity isn't consistently good (most of the world)."

With all due respect, countries without decent Internet infrastructure are unlikely to be places where there are plenty of people with the spare cash to blow on a console.

Furthermore, Nintendo has said that the NX is not designed to be a replacement for the Wii U, meaning that Nintendo may still plan to sell the Wii U, and therefore would have a product to sell in emerging markets (in addition to their handheld devices).

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2015-05/15/nintendo-nx-n...

"Following a Nintendo investor briefing, officially translated here, president Satoru Iwata says that although the NX will be "a dedicated video game platform with a brand new concept," he does not "intend it to become a simple "replacement" for Nintendo 3DS or Wii U.""

Carrying on, consider the following points from the GFK Research Group leak:

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/rumored-nintendo-nx-spe...

"Connect with other Nintendo players around the world via the Nintendo Network"

"Gameplay flows between Nintendo NX console and Nintendo NX handheld device"

"Supports 4K/60fps video streaming"

"Gameplay graphics at 900p/60fps"

> "Sure, Nintendo are struggling to find their place in the home console market right now but they're more conservative when it comes to changing the distribution/sales model."

Nintendo have been slow to develop their online offerings, but they're increasingly working in that direction. Nintendo is also keen to get into the mobile gaming market, which a game-streaming platform would help with:

http://venturebeat.com/2015/03/17/nintendo-and-dena-announce...

Furthermore, even if such a move to a streaming, subscription-based service would be innovative for Nintendo, the sort of 'Netflix for gaming' approach is nothing new in the market. Aside from OnLive as mentioned before, Sony are already doing it with PlayStation Now. Nintendo can learn from earlier attempts in the market, they don't have to go in blind.

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/gaming/playstation-now-1213...

Lastly, if you believe some of the rumoured specs (which I personally think are mostly driven by wishful thinking), the NX is meant to be 3x more powerful than the PS4. That sort of power only makes sense if it's a streaming platform.

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by jerf on Saturday May 14, 2016 @11:13AM (#11696469)
"the NX is meant to be 3x more powerful than the PS4. That sort of power only makes sense if it's a streaming platform."

You're confusing me. One minute you seem to be discussing streaming from the console, the next streaming to the console. They may coincidentally use the same English word but technically they have nothing to do with each other.

Streaming from the console may require a bit of extra oomph, but if you're designing it into the console from scratch you can add some custom hardware for it and it shouldn't increase general-purpose computing requirements. Streaming to the console by no stretch of the imagination requires anything to be 3x more powerful than the PS4; if you added 4K output to its graphics card, a XBox 360 would be plenty powerful enough to stream even 4K to the console. Sending video streams to the hardware decoder does not take a lot of power. Either way you don't need a lot more power for "streaming" either in or out.

As for specs, it will be coming out 3 years after the PS4 came out. The PS4/XBone generation is generally considered a bit underpowered compared to what PCs could already do at the time. CPUs haven't been advancing much but GPUs have still be clockin' along in the past 3 years. Being merely 3x more powerful than a PS4 is still Nintendo being conservative and not focusing on producing a graphics powerhouse, as has been their style for the Wii line, not some sort of impossible dream.

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by ZenoArrow on Saturday May 14, 2016 @12:54PM (#11696966)
> "You're confusing me."

I imagine the NX device to be a low cost set top box style affair. The 3x power I'm referring to is the total processing power of the NX platform, with the vast majority of that processing power living in the cloud. Does that help clear up the confusion?

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by jerf on Saturday May 14, 2016 @08:31PM (#11698724)
Yes, thanks.

I'd consider it a suicidal move on their part, but that's far from proof that won't be how it works.

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by davb on Saturday May 14, 2016 @02:41PM (#11697482)
> With all due respect, countries without decent Internet infrastructure are unlikely to be places where there are plenty of people with the spare cash to blow on a console.

I think you underestimate the woeful state of broadband in many developed nations.

Here in the UK, many non-rural areas struggle to get more than 8Mbps down, 1Mbps up. With more devices in the home putting demands on connections and many ISPs capping usage (or offering unlimited but heavily throttled connections), downloading or streaming games isn't always viable.

In my own case, I recently moved house and went from an 80Mbps FTTC connection (the fastest available in my city) to 6Mbps. It doesn't take much more than someone at home streaming Netflix while another browses the internet or downloads a 25GB game on the Xbox to make streaming games completely unworkable.

I know the situation is very similar in Australia, New Zealand, areas in Spain..

We often see this skewed perception from American companies that everyone in a first-world country has consistent and fast connectivity. A lot of US products and concepts just die here for that reason. The original Xbox One concept of being download-only would have been a complete failure here.

It's not just poor people (who "are unlikely to be places where there are plenty of people with the spare cash to blow on a console") who struggle for good connectivity.

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by ZenoArrow on Saturday May 14, 2016 @06:16PM (#11698300)
>_"Here in the UK, many non-rural areas struggle to get more than 8Mbps down, 1Mbps up."

I live in the UK too, so I know that's baloney. The penentration of BT Infinity and Virgin Broadband in urban areas is pretty high, and average speeds exceed 8mpbs.

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by avar on Thursday May 19, 2016 @12:40PM (#11731471)

    > Nintendo has said that the NX is not designed
    > to be a replacement for the Wii U, meaning that
    > Nintendo may still plan to sell the Wii U
Generally these sort of comments can also just mean "please don't stop buying our current stuff just because a replacement is around the corner".

We'll see when it's released, I wouldn't be surprised if it's a complete replacement for their existing consoles.

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by parenthesis on Saturday May 14, 2016 @02:24PM (#11697409)
The annoyingness of cinematic screens is increased futher if your favourite TV shows are from the 80s and 90s, and your favourite movies from the 30s, 40s and 50s.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by grogenaut on Saturday May 14, 2016 @11:54PM (#11699336)
Get a monitor like a Dell u2715 and turn it sideways. Basically a double tall square resolution monitor.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by Millennium on Saturday May 14, 2016 @01:12PM (#11697070)
I miss 4:3 screens for coding on laptops and all-in-ones. But on anything where the screen can be rotated, I love them.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by mcculley on Saturday May 14, 2016 @11:33AM (#11696537)
> E-Mail before we lost the "text should be text and not goddamn HTML" war.

It didn't work. To this day, if you begin a plain text email message with the word "From", you'll confuse mail programs because there wasn't a proper encoding of the body of the message separate from the headers.

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by Freak_NL on Saturday May 14, 2016 @12:43PM (#11696898)
> To this day, if you begin a plain text email message with the word "From", you'll confuse mail programs […]

RFC 5322:

> […] The body is simply a sequence of > characters that follows the header section and is separated from the > header section by an empty line (i.e., a line with nothing preceding > the CRLF).

What brain dead mail program interprets anything after the first empty line as a header?

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by mcculley on Saturday May 14, 2016 @02:48PM (#11697510)
Various MUAs have failed this over the years. RFC 5322 is dated 2008. Plenty of users moved to HTML payloads inside MIME attachments because of the mangling that would happen otherwise. Many MUAs would prepend a > before the word From at the beginning of a line so that it wouldn't cause problems for recipients.

Some that I used that I remember such problems with include the MUA inside Netscape Navigator and mutt.

Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by digi_owl on Saturday May 14, 2016 @09:42AM (#11696071)
Heh, i recall when Apple started shipping everything with 16:9. You could tell when a web dev was using Mac, as invariably the site layout would produce a scroll bar at the bottom of the screen on 4:3 screens.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by superdude on Saturday May 14, 2016 @10:00AM (#11696150)
Actually, Apple has only used 16:10 screens for their laptops (11" Air is an exception) while almost everyone else uses 16:9. The iPad has a 4:3 screen while so many other Android tablets have used 16:9 (thankfully there are more choices now).
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by digi_owl on Saturday May 14, 2016 @10:39AM (#11696282)
16:9, 16:10, potato, potato. Point was that said web devs could not be assed to consider that there was a world outside of Apple.
Re:Ask HN: What's the best tool you used to use that doesn't... by SixSigma on Sunday May 15, 2016 @01:18PM (#11701750)
My xbox 360 has never been connected to the internet

And I'm a top poster!