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Re:TTIP Leaks by tazjin on Monday May 02, 2016 @07:05AM (#11610466)
Trump is probably our only chance at stopping this from becoming a reality.
Re:TTIP Leaks by tommyman on Monday May 02, 2016 @07:28AM (#11610544)
I honestly cannot tell if that is serious, a joke or some kind of irony.

I'm not american so really not my business however narcissists do not make good social leaders. They make really terrible & dangerous social leaders.

Re:TTIP Leaks by nibs on Monday May 02, 2016 @07:30AM (#11610551)
All politicians are narcissists. Trump is just more extroverted.
Re:TTIP Leaks by JustSomeNobody on Monday May 02, 2016 @08:23AM (#11610756)
I am and I'm disgusted that the only two people we deem worthy of putting to the forefront for our forthcoming election are Trump and Clinton.

Prepare for the Bill of Rights to be eroded further when either of these two idiots are elected.

Re:TTIP Leaks by mark_l_watson on Monday May 02, 2016 @08:41AM (#11610842)
I am a life time democrat but I actually find Hiliary Clinton to be even worse than Donald Trump. I base that on what I perceive as the chances of either getting us into a large war.
Re:TTIP Leaks by Joeri on Monday May 02, 2016 @01:14PM (#11613351)
The US has such a large military budget that it acts like a war magnet. If there isn't a war once a decade there could be talk of reducing spending which would be harmful to all those special interests funding campaigns. So, basically an anti-war candidate is unelectable because they wouldn't get big money behind them. There are always anti-war candidates at the start, but they never make it to the final two because you need the right funding mix to get there.
Re:TTIP Leaks by imtringued on Monday May 02, 2016 @12:55PM (#11613139)
Hey that's how the voting system to elect a president is supposed to work. More than two "real" candidates ends up wasting votes. If we have two liberal and one conservative president and the a voting split like this: 1. liberal 25%, 2. liberal %35 and conservative 40%

The conservative will win even though 60% voted liberal. You don't have this problem if there are only two choices.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo

Re:TTIP Leaks by zanny on Monday May 02, 2016 @12:09PM (#11612651)
> only two people we deem worthy

You aren't the one deeming them worthy, the democrat and republican establishments are.

Or at least, Republican party members were given the choice between Donald Trump and "I'll work with martians" Ted Cruz.

As long as first past the post is the voting system of the US actual democracy is impossible.

Re:TTIP Leaks by AndrewUnmuted on Monday May 02, 2016 @01:43PM (#11613662)
Pew has released research on the most narcissistic presidents of the United States. Some pretty widely-celebrated leaders are at the top of the narcissism charts [1].

In actuality, your statement in addition to Pew's research is unfounded and extremely fuzzy. Where do you and others get off on deriving a person's social leadership capabilities with their individual psychological leanings?

Funny to see FDR right near the top of the list, because it has always been a surprisingly unpopular view of his presidency that his Trump-like ability to manipulate the media to his advantage (his fireside chats and his rather quotable speeches) led to the American peoples' renewed confidence in the markets even though it took WWII to truly end the economic hardships more than a decade later. If do wish to wholly agree that narcissism does not make good social leadership, we must then question and re-align the most widely-held views of the 20th century in the US.

[1] http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/11/14/the-most-nar...

Re:TTIP Leaks by Grishnakh on Monday May 02, 2016 @11:50AM (#11612465)
WTF are you talking about? Can you point to any modern political leaders who are not narcissists? And if you can find any who are genuinely not narcissistic, they're surely sociopathic.

It's nearly impossible to get anywhere in politics without one or both of these qualities. And people like you happily elect them. ("People like you" being a voter in a democratic republic. If you vote, you're most likely guilty of helping to elect narcissistic and/or sociopathic people to power. There's probably almost no one on this message forum who isn't guilty of this.)

Re:TTIP Leaks by crdoconnor on Monday May 02, 2016 @07:41AM (#11610599)
Trump has spoken out against the TTIP and TPP on a number of occasions. The media just doesn't like to talk about that aspect of his campaign:

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/mar/27/trade-policy...

Re:TTIP Leaks by tommyman on Monday May 02, 2016 @07:51AM (#11610633)
I'm not sure how much weight that has. Forget what people say to/in public settings and look at their current & previous actions.

If Trump were not in presidential race and putting on public face, how do you think he would treat TTiP based on his lifetime actions? I think he would support & exploit it every way he could, & i think thats what he will do in reality regardless of what he states publicly but that's just me.

Never trust what politicians say if all their actions run contrary.

Re:TTIP Leaks by hLHEDuYtSh on Monday May 02, 2016 @08:31AM (#11610788)
As transient as his positions on social issues seem to be, his public statements on "free trade" appear to have been eerily consistent. Here is him talking in 1988, and if you substituted "China" for "Japan", it could be a speech from yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEPs17_AkTI

No idea whether this is consistent with his actions, though.

Re:TTIP Leaks by forgetsusername on Monday May 02, 2016 @08:19AM (#11610735)
>I'm not sure how much weight that has. >think he would support & exploit it every way he could

I'm not going to claim to know Trump's ambitions but you're dismissing the source and countering with "that has no weight...I think..."?

The article yesterday about the uninformed vs the misinformed mentioned this: in a time where we are overwhelmed with information, people dismiss things that don't agree with their preconceived notions as "baseless", while seeking "news" that supports their biases. It's a problem.

Re:TTIP Leaks by tommyman on Monday May 02, 2016 @09:13AM (#11611015)
I was really trying to stay out of debating the US presidential race (again, not american not my business, do not even know all the people up for election).

So I was trying to generally say 'Don't trust what politicians say, look at what they do'. That's it. I should have used somebody other than Trump as example, it was just a contrived example.

side note - I saw cruise/cruse/cruze (ted) introduce his running mate recently. She started singing some song.. I don't know either of them or their politics but it was the weirdest, most awkward creepy thing I've seen politicians on tv do.

It was seriously creepy and weird. That can't be hard to beat.

Re:TTIP Leaks by Grishnakh on Monday May 02, 2016 @04:30PM (#11615303)
Since you're not American, where are you from? If it's Europe, this is pretty bad:

>side note - I saw cruise/cruse/cruze (ted) introduce his running mate recently.

"Cruise" is either a kind of ship or a reference to a nutty but highly successful actor. I don't know what "cruse" is. "Cruze" is a car by Chevrolet, an American company, and probably not a model sold in Europe.

"Cruz", however, is Lyin' Ted's name, and it's a pretty common Spanish surname as I understand. Spain is in Europe, and assuming you're European, as most non-US posters are, probably not that far from you. (And if you're not European, the main other likely region would be Latin America, where it's completely preposterous that you wouldn't be familiar with that common surname.)

Re:TTIP Leaks by tommyman on Monday May 02, 2016 @05:56PM (#11616024)
I'm from the internet. Obviously.
Re:TTIP Leaks by shimon_e on Monday May 02, 2016 @08:32AM (#11610795)
In what ways would the TTIP effect his real estate empire? It seems to be much more relevant to other industries.
Re:TTIP Leaks by crdoconnor on Monday May 02, 2016 @07:55AM (#11610646)
He puts a large enough emphasis on it and garners enough support from it. I doubt he's going to do a 180 if elected.

It's not quite like George Bush's offhand "we will not do nation building" or Obama's offhand "this will be the most transparent administration ever". The unfairness of US trade deals is fairly central to his campaign and his support base of working class whites in hollowed out ex-industrial America.

Then again, can't rule it out either.

Re:TTIP Leaks by kevando on Monday May 02, 2016 @08:24AM (#11610763)
Welcome to the donald [1]

1: https://www.reddit.com/r/the_donald

Re:TTIP Leaks by shimon_e on Monday May 02, 2016 @08:44AM (#11610856)
From Trump's mouth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8KXUThYjhs

"TPP is going to be worse... we can't let it happen... if I am president first day - boom - it's over... you know what it is 5,000 pages... that none of our people even read..."

Re:TTIP Leaks by PythonicAlpha on Monday May 02, 2016 @07:09AM (#11610476)
Before Obama was elected, they said the same thing about him and spying on US citizen.

Edit: Seems, I said something right here -- hence the many downvotes!

For those not knowing: Obama was much criticizing the spying when he still was Senator.

Re:TTIP Leaks by dexterdog on Monday May 02, 2016 @07:17AM (#11610502)
But that was OK because he had the most transparent administration ever as promised.
Re:TTIP Leaks by PythonicAlpha on Monday May 02, 2016 @07:20AM (#11610511)
So, it is OK, to violate the rights of the people in a "transparent" way?

Or are you just want to say, that it is an improvement that he at least kept one of his promises?

Re:TTIP Leaks by leoc on Monday May 02, 2016 @07:29AM (#11610546)
I'm pretty sure dexterdog is being sarcastic.
Re:TTIP Leaks by dexterdog on Monday May 02, 2016 @08:16AM (#11610725)
I'm pretty sure you got it.
Re:TTIP Leaks by the_mitsuhiko on Monday May 02, 2016 @07:22AM (#11610520)
Nice that only ever US citizens are considered.
Re:TTIP Leaks by PythonicAlpha on Monday May 02, 2016 @07:25AM (#11610530)
As non-US citizen, I consider also non-US citizen ;)

But Obamas voters where US citizen, of course.

(and I choose to take the most obvious problem for my statement)

Re:TTIP Leaks by Chris2048 on Monday May 02, 2016 @07:38AM (#11610590)
And shutting down GB. Which goes to say it doesn't matter if they seem "nice" or not, they can still let you down - the important thing is how tied to the establishment they are.
Re:TTIP Leaks by burkaman on Monday May 02, 2016 @10:09AM (#11611470)
Isn't every current presidential candidate against TPP and TTIP? Except maybe Kasich, I guess.
Re:TTIP Leaks by tazjin on Monday May 02, 2016 @11:11AM (#11611980)
Trump and Clinton are the only remaining candidates, and Clinton is flip-flopping on the issue depending on who she's talking to.

She only recently did an anti-TPP U-turn - who knows what she stands for after being elected. Fortunately for us she won't be elected though!

Re:TTIP Leaks by Grishnakh on Monday May 02, 2016 @04:09PM (#11615116)
Are you kidding? It's quite likely she'll be elected. Her unfavorability rating from polls is very high, but Trump's is even higher. I'm not sure how Cruz's compared, but it's way up there too. The only guy who has a low unfavorability rating is Bernie, and it looks pretty certain that he's not getting the nomination nor running as an independent.

What's going to happen with this election is anyone's guess IMO. It could be Trump vs. Clinton, in which case Clinton will likely win (lower unfavorability). Or it could be Cruz vs. Clinton, which again probably favors Clinton (IMO, Cruz is far more dangerous than Trump, but that's my opinion). Or, we could get a brokered GOP convention and Kasich could get the nomination, and in a Kasich vs. Clinton fight, Kasich will likely win. Or, Kasich could get the nomination, Trump could run as an independent splitting the ticket, and who knows who'll win, though likely it'll again be Hillary because Trump/Kasich will split the GOP voters. Or Bernie could change his mind and run as an independent since the DNC has screwed him over so much, making a 3-way or 4-way race with a completely unpredictable outcome (though it might end up with the House of Representatives making the decision).

Re:TTIP Leaks by tazjin on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @08:16AM (#11619851)
I'm not kidding. Unfavourability ratings don't decide elections (look at some historical ratings of previous presidents).

Trump and Clinton have been tied in national polls recently (there was even an outlier showing +3 Trump) and this is before he has started attacking her and before any debates. She's going down.

Re:TTIP Leaks by mod on Monday May 02, 2016 @12:23PM (#11612826)
If you believe that, you should probably bet against her. The oddmakers have her as a pretty significant favorite right now.
Re:TTIP Leaks by tazjin on Monday May 02, 2016 @12:58PM (#11613171)
Ah yes, do you remember when Jeb! Bush was going to be the Republican nominee? Everyone was very certain about it.
Re:TTIP Leaks by BookmarkSaver on Monday May 02, 2016 @01:27PM (#11613493)
Yeah, before a single vote was cast. The votes are almost entirely in right now, and Sanders would need a miracle.
Re:TTIP Leaks by dragonwriter on Monday May 02, 2016 @01:34PM (#11613572)
> The votes are almost entirely in right now, and Sanders would need a miracle.

Its pretty unlikely that either candidate will have a sufficient number of pledged delegates. Hillary seems far ahead because of early statements of support from superdelegates, made at a time when her support numbers (both overall and within the party) were much higher, and here unfavorable ratings with the general election electorate much lower, when no one could imagine any other Democratic candidate garnering anywhere close to as much support through the primary and caucus process, and before she was roundly out fundraised by Sanders.

Now, while the media coverage of delegate counts has largely treated these superdelegate statements of support as equivalent to pledged delegates awarded through the primary and caucus process, they are not.

Re:TTIP Leaks by mod on Monday May 02, 2016 @04:32PM (#11615325)
You can buy Bernie for 5c.

https://www.predictit.org/Market/1232/Who-will-win-the-2016-...

If you believe he has any reasonable shot, I encourage you to put your money where your mouth is. Should be a good investment.

Re:TTIP Leaks by mod on Monday May 02, 2016 @04:30PM (#11615307)
Of course, I was actually talking about winning the presidency. I'm not arguing about her actual chances, nor whether I want her to win--simply stating that she's a big favorite to win it in the markets.

62% on predictit, where people are estimating with their money.

Re:TTIP Leaks by caoilte on Monday May 02, 2016 @02:10PM (#11613904)
> Fortunately for us she won't be elected though!

What makes you think that?

At this point I don't see a way for her to lose, unfortunately.