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Re:Steve Jobs personally rejects FreedomTime iPhone app (2008) by martythemaniak on Saturday February 27, 2010 @02:04PM (#1155661)
Every piece of software is "opinionated" to some degree. *nix has its philosophy, OS x has its look and feel, webOS and Android work in fairly different ways etc.

Apple, however, is the only one that stretches it's opinion from how software works over to what kind of content its customers can consume. Jobs and Apple seem to think that sine lots of people like their opinion on software, these people must also like their their taste in content.

And please, don't give me the Safari comeback argument, we all know there's a world of difference between native apps and web sites.

I've already voted with my wallet and development time, but the more people talk about this kind of bullshit from Apple, the more informed choices they'll be able to make.

Re:Steve Jobs personally rejects FreedomTime iPhone app (2008) by ynniv on Saturday February 27, 2010 @02:17PM (#1155675)
You still don't understand branding. When a product is new, people do not differentiate content and channel. When an offensive app is available on the AppStore, the iPhone is offensive. When there is an offensive web page which is viewable in Safari on the iPhone, the web page is offensive. Only after years of establishment does the public differentiate the product from the content. I still hear people say that something is available "in Internet Explorer". It's a long journey to establishment, and during that period, it is Apple's duty to keep their brand legitimate.
Re:Steve Jobs personally rejects FreedomTime iPhone app (2008) by gojomo on Saturday February 27, 2010 @03:56PM (#1155831)
This implies a really interesting strategic model. Up to some point, strict control is profit-maximizing, by ensuring that desirable initial impressions of the platform-as-a-whole (or store-as-a-whole) are established.

But after some point, with the image established, inclusion is the winning strategy -- or else money is left on the table, or an opening for other competitors emerges. Few adults hold a lower opinion of bookstores, cable-operators, and movie-theaters that include among their range of offerings some things that are diametrically opposed to their personal political/religious/social standards.

When does a a platform proprietor know when to shift? Is the shift best done rapidly or gradually? Even if the model is correct, is Apple being too conservative in opening up?

Re:Steve Jobs personally rejects FreedomTime iPhone app (2008) by ynniv on Saturday February 27, 2010 @04:11PM (#1155848)
Given that many older people call the internet by their web browser's name, it may be generational. So, a long time... 15 years? Its difficult because those of us who want to know are so steeped in the details that we have no perspective. I am continually amazed at the amount of advertising Apple buys for the iPod. There are people out there who still need to be convinced that having portable music / audio books / (video) podcasts is a good idea. These people would certainly conflate AppStore content with the iPhone, and it would probably affect their buying decision.
Re:Steve Jobs personally rejects FreedomTime iPhone app (2008) by starkfist on Saturday February 27, 2010 @04:12PM (#1155850)
Few adults hold a lower opinion of bookstores, cable-operators, and movie-theaters that include among their range of offerings some things that a diametrically opposed to their personal political/religious/social standards.

Uh... this is wildly untrue. You don't find XXX movies at mainstream theaters or Barely Legal magazine at Barnes and Noble. Likewise you'd be hard pressed to find your typical college-educated liberal at a christian bookstore.

Re:Steve Jobs personally rejects FreedomTime iPhone app (2008) by gojomo on Saturday February 27, 2010 @04:38PM (#1155883)
That there are a few things major chains avoid doesn't invalidate the fact they carry many things opposed to the tastes of most of their customers.

You will find books, magazines, and movies with nudity and sex at Barnes and Noble -- far moreso than allowed under current App Store standards.

Also, to the point of the original app rejection, you will find plenty of material that mocks all sides of the political spectrum. A countdown to Obama's inauguration with a negative caricature of Bush is mild compared to what you can find in bookstores, cable-channels, and theaters.

Those outlets carry such material without their customers getting offended by their mere availability.

Re:Steve Jobs personally rejects FreedomTime iPhone app (2008) by glhaynes on Saturday February 27, 2010 @05:35PM (#1155956)
Apple will someday (maybe soon, maybe not) allow more and more risque stuff into its store. But it'll never allow hardcore pornography, which most movie theaters don't show, either.
Re:Steve Jobs personally rejects FreedomTime iPhone app (2008) by jrockway on Saturday February 27, 2010 @03:34PM (#1155792)
When a product is new, people do not differentiate content and channel. When an offensive app is available on the AppStore, the iPhone is offensive. When there is an offensive web page which is viewable in Safari on the iPhone, the web page is offensive.

You're making a big leap here. You're saying that people can't tell the difference between a telephone and a store, but they can tell the difference between an application written in HTML and Javascript and an application written in Objective-C? (Remember, Apple doesn't regulate web content, and web content can be launched via an icon on the home screen.)

The reality here, I think, is that Apple just wants some time in the tech press. They hadn't really been doing anything interesting, and people were talking about Windows and Android instead of the iPhone. Now that's changed.

Relevant video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UMX-btHwYE

Re:Steve Jobs personally rejects FreedomTime iPhone app (2008) by ynniv on Saturday February 27, 2010 @04:03PM (#1155838)
You're saying that people can't tell the difference between a telephone and a store, but they can tell the difference between an application written in HTML and Javascript and an application written in Objective-C?

I get that we're all technical people here, but you're looking at this wrong. Imagine this conversation:

BOB: I am really angry at this thing my kid was playing with. It portrays a class of people as less than human.

TOM: That's horrible, where did she find it?

BOB: HorribleWebsite.com

TOM: That's tough, have you talked with her about being careful on the net?

Now Bob's daughter may have been using an iPhone, or an Android phone, or a computer, it doesn't matter. The Internet is unavoidable, and we have to deal with things that we don't like.

Lets try another.

BOB: I am really angry at this thing my kid was playing with. It portrays a class of people as less than human.

TOM: That's horrible, where did she find it?

BOB: She bought it on the AppStore.

TOM: Apple lets them sell that sort of thing? I'm going to take my son's away and get him another phone. I don't need that in my life.

Now, does either Bob or Tom know the different between an "Objective-C" application and an HTML5 offline bookmark? I can't tell, and it doesn't matter. They do know whether this offensive content can be avoided by abandoning the platform based on whether this is "web" content or not.

But sure, show your crying kittens video. Apple doesn't know what they're doing, their success was probably just luck.

Re:Steve Jobs personally rejects FreedomTime iPhone app (2008) by jrockway on Saturday February 27, 2010 @10:12PM (#1156346)
And on the other side:

Bob: Heya Tom, it's Bob from the office down the hall! Good to see you, buddy... how've ya been? Look at my awesome iPhone. It can read email and stream Pandora at the same time.

Tom: Uh, no it can't.

Bob: Yeah, well look at this boob app.

Tom: Again, not possible.

Bob: Oh yeah. Because of Apple's strange policies towards the app store, I can't run two applications at once or make my own decisions on what content I find appropriate. And what is and is not appropriate can change without any advanced notice to me, meaning that if an inappropriate app has a bug in it, the developer will never be allowed to fix it for me.

Tom: So why did you buy that piece of junk again?

Bob: Because it was cheaper than the Nexus One.

Tom: You get what you pay for.

Being a playwright is fun.

Re:Steve Jobs personally rejects FreedomTime iPhone app (2008) by tptacek on Saturday February 27, 2010 @04:33PM (#1155876)
I think if you give a close reading to Patrick's postings here, you'll quickly come to the conclusion that the differences between the app store, Safari, and the iPhone are irrelevant to non-technical users, just like the fact that Bosch makes my engine ECU and OBDII sets the standards that govern fuel efficiency vs. performance are mostly irrelevant to my evaluation of a car.
Re:Steve Jobs personally rejects FreedomTime iPhone app (2008) by wanderr on Saturday February 27, 2010 @03:15PM (#1155757)
To me that seems like making the case that if there is offensive content broadcasted on tv, people will blame the television, not the broadcaster. That makes no sense.
Re:Steve Jobs personally rejects FreedomTime iPhone app (2008) by jrp on Saturday February 27, 2010 @03:47PM (#1155808)
will -> would have when it was new
Re:Steve Jobs personally rejects FreedomTime iPhone app (2008) by wanderr on Thursday March 04, 2010 @01:26AM (#1166331)
Well, did they?