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Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by tommoor on Thursday April 21, 2016 @07:20PM (#11546018)
They seem to be doing a pretty good job of diversifying? The profits haven't caught up yet, granted, but this is a company with many of the smartest people in the world working on future game-changing tech and sinking a ton of money into research. Still bullish here :)
Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by adventured on Thursday April 21, 2016 @07:30PM (#11546056)
They are doing a poor job of diversifying. Those side businesses are producing a small amount of revenue. It would be one thing if the profits hadn't caught up, the real problem is there isn't much in the way of sales to begin with. I see no example business of theirs that will get them even moderately diversified off of online advertising in the next five years. And I'm not speaking of technology Alphabet is messing with - what business are they looking to capture in self-driving cars for example? I see no example of an actual business there so far.

Granted, this only matters in the scenario in which their online advertising business contracts meaningfully (whether due to ad-blockers or otherwise). If ad-blockers gain usage at an accelerating pace, Google is unlikely to have much time to diversify (and that takes a long time when you're talking $20b in sales to off-set).

So far Google has been flaky, disorganized and unprincipled about developing other real businesses. They should have a dramatically larger cloud services business for example, but they handled that incompetently and ceded years and tons of ground to AWS.

Essentially Google has to spend the next several years praying that ad-blockers don't rapidly bring their spigot of online ad dollars to an end. That's a real bad position to have put yourself in if you're a $536 billion corporation.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by diffraction on Thursday April 21, 2016 @07:56PM (#11546173)
I block ads because "native" ad producers like Taboola, Outbrain, Revcontent, ... you get the point. These advertising companies like to show NSFW content at the end of news articles at some sites. Therefore I block ads for the same reason I block pornographic sites.

This was pretty liberating because before "native" ads I felt a pang of guilt for blocking ads.

If Google wants to stop ad blockers they should hide sites that use these obnoxious "native" ad networks.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by partiallypro on Thursday April 21, 2016 @11:46PM (#11546934)
> If Google wants to stop ad blockers they should hide sites that use these obnoxious "native" ad networks.

This would instantly and Google in court for anti-competitive practices...and rightfully so. Imagine if Google suddenly said, "we are going to punish any publisher that doesn't use Adsense within organic search listings." Holy cow that would be bad, and the scary part is that Google could easily do this without even announcing it.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by Jordrok on Thursday April 21, 2016 @11:11PM (#11546826)
I agree, but let's be fair here. Porn brings much more value to the world than Taboola and Outbrain could ever hope for.
Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by empath75 on Thursday April 21, 2016 @09:05PM (#11546425)
That would bring an antitrust lawsuit against them pretty quickly, I think.
Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by newjersey on Thursday April 21, 2016 @09:47PM (#11546543)
This is probably the worst thing about being influential and/or wealthy. Nobody would sue opera if they did it.
Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by thedufer on Friday April 22, 2016 @12:20AM (#11547037)
Does opera bring in 18 billion dollars a year from advertising? Anti competitive is a much easier sell against Google, since advertising is their core business. I don't see how this has much to do with influence.
Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by ZeroGravitas on Saturday April 23, 2016 @02:31AM (#11554427)
This comment prompted me to investigate why these ads still showed up for me on Mobile Firefox, despite having AdBlock Plus installed. In the AdBlock options, there's a check box to allow "acceptable" ads.

Sorry other allegedly acceptable ads, but I don't need trashy clickbait at the end of every news story so you all lose out.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by wstrange on Thursday April 21, 2016 @08:36PM (#11546320)
Cloud.

I think they are very serious about becoming the market leader in this space. They are behind AWS, but if they can leverage the same technology that they use internally, they will have a compelling offering.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by funkyy on Thursday April 21, 2016 @10:54PM (#11546781)
And yet they managed to make another complicated cloud service.

Would be nice if someone would cater for Startup owners that do not have time to study documentation and overlook multiple processes just to run a simple bot etc.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by matwood on Thursday April 21, 2016 @11:42PM (#11546923)
GCE is much simpler to use than EC2. Google came to the party late and they have seemed to take some time to not replicate AWSs annoyances.
Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by funkyy on Friday April 22, 2016 @08:58AM (#11548726)
The problem for me is that "much simpler" is not good enough. With DO for example when I go to their panel I never used it before it will take me tops 1 hour to find all the possible options, all perks and cons, everything. In just 1 hour.

I know, I know, AWS and Google Cloud is not DO and I agree. But would it hurt to introduce DO or Vultr style UX and make it easier for regular user to launch what he wants without all the expert language and need to jump in to documentation for hours?

Would button "Simple" and "Advanced" UI be really that hard to make?

I, as startup owner, dont really have time to focus on all the noise from large cloud providers, its easier to just launch 5 VPS with DO or Vultr and create my own infrastructure. And while I grow I doubt I will move my business to any of the cloud providers because I dont have time for it. Its easier to just build infrastructure on VPS's for $5 or just go for dedicated servers for backend.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by n13 on Friday April 22, 2016 @12:04AM (#11547001)
Would you please care to share learning resources about GCE other than the official docs?
Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by matt4077 on Friday April 22, 2016 @06:14AM (#11548131)
I've moved our infrastructure over to GCE and basically just clicked around in the interface until I had what I wanted. It's really quite easy (although I'm only using compute engine and bigtable right now).

I got 300$ in credits on every google account when I first vistited which allowed me to play around with their big data stuff and some public datasets, which was nice.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by rsync on Thursday April 21, 2016 @11:42PM (#11546922)
If only ...

If only there were cloud products and services that were dead simple and just did one little useful thing just the way you wanted it.

If only ...

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by tluyben2 on Friday April 22, 2016 @02:05AM (#11547337)
That is nice in theory but nobody really wants that. In practice I do not want to run my app on 40 different services potentially owned by different companies. If you mean that inside one company is fine than I believe ec2, s3 etc seperately already provide what you say: if you would make them simpler it would get annoying as you would have to set up yet more services (within the same portal, which is a bit better) to get stuff done. I think the theory is nice to start off but I do not think there is a real market for 'dead simple with one little useful thing'. Then again: try it, who knows.
Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by rsync on Friday April 22, 2016 @11:41AM (#11550000)
"Then again: try it, who knows."

You know what, I think I will!

What should I call it ?

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by tamana on Friday April 22, 2016 @12:51AM (#11547125)
What about when folks want lots of useful things?
Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by coldtea on Friday April 22, 2016 @07:09AM (#11548283)
Then they are outliers, and market themselves out of the 80/20 customer segment.
Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by empath75 on Thursday April 21, 2016 @09:07PM (#11546433)
If the ads business goes to shit, the cloud business takes a beating, also.
Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by arthurcolle on Thursday April 21, 2016 @09:54PM (#11546571)
Cloud is basically SaaS which is the antithesis of the advertisement model.

But okay, I guess you must know better.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by 1123581321 on Thursday April 21, 2016 @10:34PM (#11546713)
I believe the person to which you replied meant that a lot of cloud platforms/hosting revenue depends on ad-funded customers. If the customers go out of business and aren't replaced, subscription revenue suffers.
Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by olalonde on Thursday April 21, 2016 @09:23PM (#11546472)
> what business are they looking to capture in self-driving cars for example? I see no example of an actual business there so far.

God, I wouldn't want to be on the record saying that. People used to say things like this about web search too.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by declan on Friday April 22, 2016 @01:11AM (#11547185)
Yup. There's a lot of mischief in "so far."

Some products take a while to build, especially when dealing with less-than-friendly .gov regulators.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by 50CNT on Friday April 22, 2016 @08:09AM (#11548502)
Thought the whole self driving car thing was a bid to scalp the transportation business. Some of the largest companies around are half logistics, say Amazon & Walmart.
Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by simula67 on Friday April 22, 2016 @02:52AM (#11547473)
Cloud profits are not much ( for AWS around $687M per quarter [1]) compared to ad ( around $7B per quarter [2]). Google has many businesses that has the potential to generate a lot of money like

a) licensing technology to car manufacturers for self-driving cars

b) Manufacturing and selling hardware ( like Chromebooks, OnHub, Chromecasts etc )

c) Google Apps, GCE, Google Drive etc

d) Google checkout/wallet payment processing

e) Online publishing with Google Play, Music, Youtube etc.

If you look through Google's list of products[3], I am sure you will be able to find many more potential high profit products. But they are terrible at turning them into viable businesses.

[1] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/28/amazons_numbers_for_...

[2] http://www.wsj.com/articles/alphabet-reports-rising-profits-...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Google_products

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by mark_l_watson on Friday April 22, 2016 @07:10AM (#11548287)
+1 that is a good list

Although I use Google Search a lot less than I used to, I find myself a fairly happy customer of Play Music + TV + Movies, and I am using GCE as the platform for a new book I am writing on cognitive computing.

Google checkout may end up being huge. Google has sufficient funds to do more Google branded products. Their premium Chromebook is sort of too expensive to be a mainstream product, but I could see a Google branded cheaper Chromebook selling very well.

Google branded Chromebooks and Android phones bundled using their Fi wireless data services also seems like a good source of profit.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by alaskamiller on Friday April 22, 2016 @03:16AM (#11547540)
a) Until self driving car technology commoditizes and car manufacturers catches up, buys a Chinese copy cat, or rolls their own solution

b) Low margins

c) Thin margins

d) Lots of competition

e) Maybe

Nothing beats the fat profits of auctioning off ad space to advertisers.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by f_allwein on Thursday April 21, 2016 @09:24PM (#11546475)
Self driving cars: imagine you could just tap a button on your phone and a car came along to take you to your destination - you would not need to own a car anymore and instead pay a monthly fee to Alphabet (or whoever). The fee will be even lower if you agree to watch ads during the ride. ;-)

But the big opportunity is that they could offer you a car-as-a-service for much less than the current cost of a car. Today's cars are unused most of the time, so if we'd replace them with such a service, we'd need significantly fewer of them, thus reducing the cost.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by prostoalex on Thursday April 21, 2016 @09:39PM (#11546525)
If you look at the financials of car rental companies, markets are not too eager to pay premium for a business that has high upfront capital cost (buying/manufacturing the vehicles) as well as high operating costs (car washes, maintenance, repairs). You could argue that Alphabet's margins will be so good as to obliterate those concerns, but then why haven't other operators in the space (GM owns some car rental businesses, for instance) boasted those?
Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by jfoster on Thursday April 21, 2016 @10:13PM (#11546623)
The margins on Uber-like trips in self-driving cars might be better than the margins on day rental of conventional vehicles.

Self-driving changes quite a bit about cars. If accident rates can be low enough, they don't need as much conventional safety measures; air bags, metal armour that crumples, etc. Less weight there means lower fuel costs. The way they drive should mean lower maintenance & fuel costs compared with human drivers.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by AnthonyMouse on Friday April 22, 2016 @01:31AM (#11547242)
> If accident rates can be low enough, they don't need as much conventional safety measures; air bags, metal armour that crumples, etc.

There is no hope of that happening. You're never going to convince people to remove safety features, and even if you could, a car that has 5% as many collisions but logs 50 times as many miles would justify more safety features because there will be more collisions per vehicle despite there being fewer collisions per mile.

> The way they drive should mean lower maintenance & fuel costs compared with human drivers.

All of that sort of thing will be dwarfed by not having to pay a human driver. But in a competitive market it will also be eroded by competition. A cab ride that used to be $20 will soon be $2 because now $2 can turn a profit.

On the other hand, if it now costs $2 instead of $20 then people will start using hired cars instead of owning cars and then you might make a lot of it back on volume. (By essentially destroying the rest of the auto industry.)

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by michaelt on Friday April 22, 2016 @07:36AM (#11548364)

  There is no hope of that happening. You're never going
  to convince people to remove safety features,
Not only is this legal, it currently happens with hire cars. Enterprise rent-a-car, for example, brought 66,000 Impala cars with the standard side-curtain airbags removed, saving them $175 per vehicle [1]

With that said, I don't think the savings from removing safety features would be big enough to have much impact on Google's finances. I'd have thought the real savings would be from avoiding the costs of being in accidents. Or capturing some of the value of people being productive when they would otherwise be driving, although that value might be hard to capture.

[1] http://www.zdnet.com/article/enterprise-rent-a-car-removed-a...

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by prostoalex on Friday April 22, 2016 @02:17AM (#11547363)
Uber's entire spiel is avoiding the capital hit associated with purchasing a pricey asset that depreciates quickly by keeping it on driver's personal balance sheet, not theirs.

I agree autonomous driving changes some cost dynamics, but on the other hand people not only have higher expectations on rented vehicles as far as cleanliness and safety go (that "check engine" light is no longer optional, dirt from previous passenger's shoes needs to be vacuumed, random leftover trash and water bottles need to be taken out), but are also likely to abuse rented vehicles for random dirty jobs like hauling potted plants from the nursery, as well as plain old bar hopping while drunk with associated sanitary accidents.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by semi-extrinsic on Friday April 22, 2016 @01:27AM (#11547233)
Your hypothetical "low accident protection" scenario is laughably unrealistic.

One major point against it is that even though self-driving cars may be here soon, none of us will live to see the day when manual driving is banned. Especially not in the freedom-happy US.

A second major counterpoint is that even in this fascist dictatorship where manual driving is banned, external factors (large wildlife, sudden slippery ice, human error in vehicle maintenance, etc.) will still cause serious accidents.

The third major counterpoint is: say you reduce accident rates by two or three orders of magnitude (which would be huge). Still, a tiny tiny fraction of people would end up in accidents. What society would be OK with saying "Oh, screw it, let those people die so manufacturers can build cheaper cars"?

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by eru on Friday April 22, 2016 @07:40AM (#11548383)
I can see a country like Singapore banning human-driven cars in a few years.

There are set to get self-driving taxis before the end of the year there. And you already need to bid on a pricy permit to operate your own car. (Certificate of Entitlement. A ten year one goes for more than 50k SGD.)

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by m_eiman on Friday April 22, 2016 @05:07AM (#11547917)
Today's cars are unused most of the time

But when they're used, most of them are used at the same time - rush hour traffic. If everyone wants to go to work in a car at the same time, you'll still need about as many cars.

What's needed is a diversification of working times: if half of the workforce started work an hour later, it would have a huge impact on traffic density and would also make things like shared self-driving cars more realistic.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by yarou on Friday April 22, 2016 @03:16AM (#11547541)
Google is not the only player in the self-driving car market (or soon to be market), though.

There's Tesla, GM (with the Cruise acquisition)...heck even @geohot's startup comma.ai is also tackling the same challenges.

I highly doubt that will be enough to replace the market leader position they have with ads. And believe me, ads are going to die out quicker than a coked out wannabe actor in LA.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by hibikir on Friday April 22, 2016 @08:34AM (#11548628)
Business in self driving cars? How about the elderly that get to choose between depending on somebody, or driving unsafely? How about carting around too young to drive? Making current taxis obsolete? Self driving big rigs?

It wouldn't necessarily eat the entire car industry, but it's close.

That said, yes, they have to target problems that require a lot of capital, because, in practice, a company that will turn a profit no matter what you do is not one that is ever in a rush, or where hungry entrepreneurs go. They have to aim for niches where regular venture capital would never dare to go. This leads to lots of risky bets, looking for one that really moves the needle.

Remember Xerox PARC? That is what a monster like Alphabet ends up doing. It was not great for Xerox, but we all sure benefitted from their 'failures'

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by omarchowdhury on Thursday April 21, 2016 @07:34PM (#11546073)
Advertising will just change form.
Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by home_boi on Thursday April 21, 2016 @10:55PM (#11546786)
Are there ad blockers for mobile? I feel like Google has already solved the ad blocker problem with Android.
Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by dingaling on Friday April 22, 2016 @01:33AM (#11547246)
> Are there ad blockers for mobile?

In terms of mobile apps, yes. There are rootless-firewalls that register themselves as an all-routes VPN and then blackhole 'unwanted' traffic.

Mobile browsers such as Firefox already have the same ad blockers plugins as desktop.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by mgnacl on Friday April 22, 2016 @02:13AM (#11547354)
Firefox + ublock origin works fine for me.
Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by eva1984 on Thursday April 21, 2016 @11:29PM (#11546881)
They just need add google ads into Google Now...that's it. Unless you strip the whole framework, you can not possibly block it.
Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by maxxxxx on Thursday April 21, 2016 @08:49PM (#11546365)
It just shows that the smartest people in the world working on cool tech doesn't necessarily mean business success. It's a different kind of smarts.
Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by CydeWeys on Thursday April 21, 2016 @08:54PM (#11546388)
Alphabet is the second largest publicly traded company in the world ... if that's not business success, what is?

I think in these kinds of conversations we sometimes lose a little perspective.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by maxxxxx on Thursday April 21, 2016 @10:15PM (#11546634)
Sorry, my post was not complete. No doubt they are doing great with their ad business. But they seem to struggle with making money from any of the other things they do. And to justify their valuation at some point they have make massive amounts of profit. Much more than they do now.

So it seems to me that some of the smartest guys doing the coolest tech in the world is not sufficient to making money.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by hyperpallium on Friday April 22, 2016 @04:51AM (#11547851)
> struggle with making money from any of the other things they do

They're not so much struggling to make money, but struggling to make comparable money to one of the most phenomenally successful businesses ever seen.

It's like saying Apple TV is a hobby because it's only a billion dollar business.

Rounding errors at Google/Apple are greater than our wildest dreams.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by themartorana on Thursday April 21, 2016 @10:29PM (#11546698)
The struggle is moving the relative needle. I doubt they have trouble making money, but is it going to move that $20.3B number? Because in order to actually move it, it needs minimum revenues of $100,000,000.

I'm sure they make money in other pursuits (I'm sure GCE is doing some, and I hear their government contracts are sizable) but $100m just to tick up the revenue decimal point...

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by trhway on Friday April 22, 2016 @04:38AM (#11547793)
Amazon AWS revenue was 2.4B in Q4 and 2B in Q3. GCE would be obvious next (and the easiest as a lot of components is already in-place) big money printing thing for Google if done right. Yet it seems that they struggle even there.

One of the main issue i see here is pretty typical for Google in my view, ie. that Google isn't really trying to serve customers - i mean in search Google is monopolist and thus advertisers would pay attention to and follow every whim of Google. In cloud computing customers don't have to appreciate the honor of being a GCE customer, instead they can just go to AWS (where automated tools as well as real customer service are really geared for customer).

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by ethbro on Friday April 22, 2016 @07:29AM (#11548347)
I'd agree with the difference. Maybe it's the articles I've read recently, but Amazon seems to have more agile / startup philosophies (trying, failing, continuing support, and iterating) embedded higher up.

I've seen too many instances of pretty simple Google usability / feature bug reports closed as "will not fix / working as intended" to chalk it up to specific teams. "We built the Pontiac Aztek perfectly, and you should love us for it" type project design seems embedded in their DNA.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by toomuchtodo on Thursday April 21, 2016 @10:32PM (#11546708)
How long did it take for Google to really start printing money? 5? Maybe 10 years? Think of those projects now not wildly profitable as the seeds of new, profitable businesses down the road.

Short term thinking, that's the problem with the equities market.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by coldtea on Friday April 22, 2016 @07:07AM (#11548279)
>How long did it take for Google to really start printing money? 5? Maybe 10 years? Think of those projects now not wildly profitable as the seeds of new, profitable businesses down the road.

What projects? The self driving car? The traditional car companies (that also work on that), Tesla, the Chinese, and even Apple who's verified to be working on such a project can possibly all kill them on that market.

What else of importance is there? Their AWS competitor?

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by toomuchtodo on Friday April 22, 2016 @01:19PM (#11550745)
> What else of importance is there? Their AWS competitor?

Google Fiber. Note how profitable that is for Comcast as a monopoly. I'm confident Google can still reap double digit margins while keeping costs down for Google Fiber users through their knowledge of network management.

Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by runamok on Friday April 22, 2016 @10:40AM (#11549521)
Note they were granted some patents re: self driving cars. http://www.tomsguide.com/us/google-driverless-car-patent-usp...
Re:Alphabet slides 5% after missing earnings expectations on... by bryanrasmussen on Friday April 22, 2016 @02:49AM (#11547466)
0 to 60 is easier to do than 60 to 120.