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Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by username223 on Saturday April 09, 2016 @10:49AM (#11461459)
Maybe this is a stupid question, but why is it better to land the rocket on a ship instead of having it plop into the ocean and float for a few hours or days until a nearby ship can scoop it up?
Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by Klathmon on Saturday April 09, 2016 @10:50AM (#11461466)
The sea is filled with all kinds of stuff that pretty much ruins anything it gets into.

The cost of cleaning, refitting, and fixing issues from a splash landing is more expensive than doing it this way. At least that's what SpaceX's whole model is pretty much based on.

Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by username223 on Saturday April 09, 2016 @11:09AM (#11461576)
Thanks. I'm just surprised that the cost of damage from seawater to a dumb rocket with a parachute and floats is more than the cost of a smart rocket making a much more error-prone landing on a tiny ship.
Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by CydeWeys on Saturday April 09, 2016 @11:57AM (#11461798)
> I'm just surprised that the cost of damage from seawater to a dumb rocket with a parachute and floats

Maybe it helps to think by analogy. Which is harder, putting a car on a ferry to carry it across a river, or just driving it into the river and fishing it out the other end? Sure, you'll have to replace the engine and the electronics and lots of other stuff (i.e. all the most expensive parts of a car), but if you're only doing it once, it's cheaper to ford that river Oregon-Trail-style than to get yourself a ferry. But if you're doing it many times ...

The point is, there's lots of extremely high precision, expensive stuff on a rocket, that don't appreciate being dunked in water in exactly the same way that, say, your computer or car wouldn't. Those engines are incredibly complicated, high performance, and expensive, and they don't have the benefits of economies of scale like other consumer goods that are manufactured in the amounts of millions or billions per year. Each rocket has nine Merlin engines on it; that's an awful lot to essentially have to replace with every launch. The barge is cheaper.

Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by kpennell on Saturday April 09, 2016 @06:46PM (#11463777)
good stuff
Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by madlag on Saturday April 09, 2016 @11:25AM (#11461652)
There is no such thing as a dumb rocket : to get down, they are using almost exactly the same stuff they use to get up, weight wise: they use the gimbaled engines, and the nitrogen attitude thrusters. The only additional devices are the grid fins, to control aerodynamically the descent, and the legs. Then you have to write the right software, and it does not weight much more ;-)
Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by Retric on Saturday April 09, 2016 @05:00PM (#11463301)
That and a little extra fuel. But, as you say probably less weight than you might think. Also, getting dunked in water probably adds quite a bit of new stresses so you would need a stronger rocket shell which is more wight.
Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by samstave on Saturday April 09, 2016 @01:44PM (#11462322)
Is this the first rocket with legs?

Seems like every thing else in history has really been a missile. This thing can land, so seems like it's literally the first rocket. Do we have a definition of missile vs rocket?

Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by ygra on Saturday April 09, 2016 @01:57PM (#11462404)
A missile historically has been anything that was thrown or launched. Nowadays it usually means a self-propelled weapon.

A rocket is just something with a rocket engine. Note that missiles do not need to use rocket engines and rockets don't need to carry warheads.

Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by lallysingh on Saturday April 09, 2016 @11:23AM (#11461642)
After R&D you're just paying for the additional fuel to land safely. The control systems are already there for the other parts of the trip.

Also, I assume it's a lot easier to be sure that the rocket's in good shape if you don't have to check the interior for leaks, and whatever chemicals seeped in with the water?

Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by Retric on Saturday April 09, 2016 @10:57AM (#11461502)
They could add a water tight cap to both ends. But this gets into weight / stress issues.

PS: Being literal rocket scientists I a going to assume landing is a much more workable design.

Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by vrfcodf on Saturday April 09, 2016 @11:14AM (#11461595)
What both ends? :-) This is a rocket, not a plastic tube.

And who plugs them, and where. In space, before landing?

Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by partisan on Saturday April 09, 2016 @11:45AM (#11461733)
This made me laugh out loud.

I think that one of the great things that comes out of this is that we start using our imaginations and trying to understand the whys and hows of space travel. It's really exciting to see.

Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by will_hughes on Saturday April 09, 2016 @10:58AM (#11461506)
Aside from what Klathmon says, the rocket is actually quite fragile.

Falling into the ocean would cause it to break up. Even the one they 'soft landed' (a practice run before landing on the barge) broke up.

Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by peeters on Saturday April 09, 2016 @01:05PM (#11462095)
Yes, think of the stage as a Coke can. It takes orders of magnitude more force to crumple it by pushing on the top of the can than by pushing on the side. The first stage is the same way; it is designed to withstand forces along the longitudinal axis (thrust and drag) but not really from the sides. The sides just have to withstand the pressure of the Coke/fuel.
Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by reportingsjr on Saturday April 09, 2016 @01:05PM (#11462093)
This has been asked many, many times. Im surprised no one has mentioned pretty much the biggest reason.

They are figuring out vertical landings so that when they go to other planets they can land, possibly refuel, and take back off without having to get the rocket back upright.

There also aren't seas on Mars to gently splash the rocket down on. :)

Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by vermontdevil on Saturday April 09, 2016 @11:51AM (#11461768)
Elon has said that the engines are the biggest cost of the rocket. Having these engines exposed to salt water would drive the costs up.

See the SRB from Space Shuttle launches. NASA thought the ocean splash and recovery would keep the costs down. It didn't. Ended up the cost to refurb and launch is almost equal to building a new one.

Elon wants to avoid this hence these barge or land returns.

Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by AmitShipEasy on Saturday April 09, 2016 @12:49PM (#11462016)
Tell me again which engines get corroded by sea water but not by combustion and re-entry
Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by CydeWeys on Saturday April 09, 2016 @01:11PM (#11462132)
You really don't see how being dunked in water is different than going through the atmosphere? You could pretty easily put a heatshield on a car and have it survive high atmospheric speeds, but dunk it in water and you'll fry out the electronics and destroy the engine. You're arguing against decades of actual experience in rocket technology. Just read up on what happened with the space shuttle SRBs.
Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by stcredzero on Saturday April 09, 2016 @04:39PM (#11463201)
And those were really just sections of stout metal tube. They didn't have things like high precision turbopumps in them.
Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by CydeWeys on Saturday April 09, 2016 @05:29PM (#11463438)
Good point. Solid fuel rockets are quite different in construction than liquid fuel rockets. They are less worth reusing because what is left isn't as valuable as a liquid fuel rocket, but they are also easier to reuse post-dunking because they aren't as complex. It's still a wash for them.

Still, it says something that no actor has ever even bothered attempting to reuse a liquid fueled rocket that is landed in water. The only successful track record of reuse of liquid fuel rockets is the space shuttle, and those landed on a runway. And that isn't preserving the fuel tanks for reuse, mind you, just the engines.

Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by stcredzero on Saturday April 09, 2016 @05:35PM (#11463460)
Solid fuel rockets are quite different in construction than liquid fuel rockets.

Hell, when they fell into the water, the impact bent the sections into ovals. They actually had a giant vise that they used to bend those things back into round. (Feynmann noted this in one of his autobiographical books.)

Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by rkangel on Saturday April 09, 2016 @02:14PM (#11462515)
When designing your rocket engine, you very carefully control where the combustion is, where the heat is, which bits will get burned away.

Dunk the whole thing in seawater and suddenly you have corrosion everywhere.

Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by mikeash on Saturday April 09, 2016 @01:46PM (#11462335)
The ones on the rocket.
Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by js2 on Saturday April 09, 2016 @11:33AM (#11461689)
That's what was done with the Space Shuttle SRB's, but those were basically completely remanufactured.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Solid_Rocket_Boo...

Also, an SRB is relatively simple compared to a liquid-fuel rocket.

Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by ufmace on Saturday April 09, 2016 @02:14PM (#11462519)
Seawater is corrosive and freshly-run rocket engines are hot, with heat speeding up chemical reactions. Dunking the engine in seawater would basically instantly destroy it. The engines are most of what they want to save, so that's a no-go.

It would also have to slow to a near-stop by itself to not be destroyed by the force of hitting the water. Considering that you can do all that with the stuff already on the rocket, seems easier to add some legs and land it than to figure out a way to make it float, survive the seas for a day or 2, and get a ship with a crane tall enough to pick it up and load it.

Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by mikeash on Saturday April 09, 2016 @12:23PM (#11461921)
Because of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square-cube_law

In short, big stuff is fragile. You can't tip over something the size of a large office building an expect it to survive.

Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by neverminder on Saturday April 09, 2016 @10:59AM (#11461515)
The short answer - sea water is highly corrosive and rockets are not exactly built water-tight.
Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by cr1895 on Saturday April 09, 2016 @11:28AM (#11461665)
It simply being on a barge at sea is still going to subject it to a corrosive environment. Especially if it encounters a lot of wind and waves on the trip back.
Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by jonknee on Saturday April 09, 2016 @11:48AM (#11461750)
Yes, but orders of magnitude less than being submerged for hours/days.
Re:SpaceX just landed a rocket on a drone ship for the first... by netman21 on Saturday April 09, 2016 @01:54PM (#11462380)
Prototype, prototype, prototype. Break the whole system of launch vehicles down into parts. Perfect each part. One of those parts, a soft landing, is very dangerous to surrounding environs. So perfect the process out at sea. Once you gain confidence, land the rockets back at the processing facility.