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Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by AlgorithmicTime on Thursday March 10, 2016 @07:36AM (#11258794)
This is silly. Disabled people don't have any special rights, and should not expect any special accommodations, especially when those accommodations would cause excess environmental damage. You may as well complain that Mount McKinley isn't handicapped accessible.
Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by noir_lord on Thursday March 10, 2016 @07:42AM (#11258820)
What a horrible worldview you have.

Yes disabled people shouldn't have any special rights but they should have the same rights as everyone else, the right to live as functional life as possible, if that requires that the rest of society make some accommodations then that's fine by me.

Any society is the sum of its parts, all its parts and should be judged on how it treats everyone able bodied and not.

Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by ikeboy on Thursday March 10, 2016 @11:12AM (#11260004)
>Yes disabled people shouldn't have any special rights but they should have the same rights as everyone else, the right to live as functional life as possible, if that requires that the rest of society make some accommodations then that's fine by me.

This proves too much. If someone living a functional life requires, say $1 billion, then your argument says they have a right to it, while I expect the vast majority would disagree.

I think the problem here is really the negative externality of waste. The proper response is to charge a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigovian_tax, so the actual societal cost is passed on to the consumer. Then no one can complain that someone's wasting, because their cost perfectly cancels out the effect.

Separately, we can subsidise the cost for people who can't afford it, but that's a different discussion from allowing wasteful products (that people are willing to pay for) to exist in the first place.

Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by AlgorithmicTime on Thursday March 10, 2016 @08:34AM (#11259051)
Yes, they do have the same rights as everyone else. They have the right to purchase oranges with the skin on and use the stairs. They have no room to expect additional accommodation for their problems.
Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by jareds on Thursday March 10, 2016 @08:54AM (#11259169)
As a totally blind software developer I'm sure glad the entire world isn't as closed minded as you. Based on your statements I shouldn't have gotten Braille books as a child because they require more paper, higher transportation costs, and there for are less environmentally friendly then print books. Without them I would be illiterate and unable to hold down a job. While not everything can be made accessible to everyone in a reasonable fashion refusing to put forth any effort even if it interferes slightly with your life is not acceptable either.
Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by shasta on Thursday March 10, 2016 @09:10AM (#11259252)
I'm hoping that AlgorithmicTime is making a fine distinction about what is a "right", rather than suggesting the disabled shouldn't receive help.
Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by Chris2048 on Thursday March 10, 2016 @10:35AM (#11259761)
What obligations are there for publishers wrt braille books?
Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by mchaver on Thursday March 10, 2016 @11:06AM (#11259966)
It looks like the Library of Congress has an appropriation of funds to help produce braille books and provide them to public libraries. I'm not sure if this is the most up-to-date information though.

https://www.loc.gov/nls/pl89522.html

Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by Chris2048 on Thursday March 10, 2016 @08:13AM (#11258941)
Where is "the right to live as functional life as possible" an established right?
Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by tremon on Thursday March 10, 2016 @08:44AM (#11259115)
Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by AlgorithmicTime on Thursday March 10, 2016 @08:53AM (#11259163)
Oh, a non-binding, toothless, meaningless document issued by the UN. Seems legit.
[dead]
Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by dang on Thursday March 10, 2016 @01:51PM (#11261198)
The whole subthread is nasty, but this crosses into personal attack. Please don't do that here, regardless of how others are behaving.
Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by nkrisc on Thursday March 10, 2016 @11:16PM (#11264615)
Perhaps I let my emotions get the better of me. It's this empathy-devoid hyper-libertarianism that drives me nuts.
Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by Chris2048 on Friday March 11, 2016 @06:44AM (#11266006)
Still throwing labels around? Maybe they're still getting the better of you?
Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by nkrisc on Friday March 11, 2016 @08:17AM (#11266390)
No, that's just my opinion of the characterisation of the comments I was replying to. You're welcome to disagree.
Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by Chris2048 on Friday March 11, 2016 @06:26AM (#11265953)
Please don't characterise opinions that differ from yours as problematic behaviour..
Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by dang on Friday March 11, 2016 @01:30PM (#11268528)
Telling someone that their "ending up as a quadriplegic" would be a "great display of poetic justice" is indefensible on HN. If the word "opinion" covers something like that then the word "opinion" is meaningless.
Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by Chris2048 on Friday March 11, 2016 @05:36PM (#11270051)
I'm perfectly fine with that, and totally agree. These are the parts I don't like:

> The whole subthread is nasty

> regardless of how others are behaving.

If you disagree with any of the opinions in the thread, please comment. Labeling them as 'nasty', or implying bad behavior without pointing it out is something that should be defended.

Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by Chris2048 on Friday March 11, 2016 @06:47AM (#11266021)
To clarify, "Please don't make personal attacks here, even if they deserve it" is not a neutral comment.
Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by tremon on Friday March 11, 2016 @07:47AM (#11266268)
But that interpretation is entirely yours, it's not what dang was saying.
Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by Chris2048 on Friday March 11, 2016 @07:57AM (#11266312)
"regardless of how others are behaving"
Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by tremon on Friday March 11, 2016 @10:59AM (#11267322)
So?

If the implicit assumption is something along the lines of "people I disapprove of deserve what's coming to them", then again, that interpretation is entirely yours.

Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by Chris2048 on Friday March 11, 2016 @04:52PM (#11269807)
How is that the same as "Please don't make personal attacks here, even if they deserve it"?

It's not at all required to mention if you disapprove of something when chastising someone for abuse. It undermines the point. Makes it sound like some unfortunate technicality or point of honour.

If you have a problem with the content of the thread, mention it, and defend that opinion. Otherwise, don't mention it. Flinging labels from above helps nothing.

Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by nkrisc on Thursday March 10, 2016 @10:58AM (#11259918)
You're right. Disabled people don't have special rights. It doesn't mean we can't choose to help them. After all, today it's them, tomorrow it's I.
Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by runholm on Thursday March 10, 2016 @09:19AM (#11259296)
It's not "special rights". It's the same rights as everyone else. The special accommodations are there to allow disabled people to live their lives as normal as possible.
Re:When Accessibility Gets Labeled Wasteful by AlgorithmicTime on Thursday March 10, 2016 @11:36AM (#11260178)
That's the definition of special rights. Giving them something normal people don't get.