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Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by indifferentalex on Friday December 18, 2015 @07:07AM (#10758022)
10/10 Will read again.

The sexism debate has indeed painted a bleak picture, people so often try to show a different side of the picture but end up using the wrong words or simply adding ambiguity to the discussion, most of the time only making the matter more complicated, and worst of all, pulling us even further from a potential solution. This one showed us not only a potential solution, but also proved it's effectiveness.

Lea Verou (the author of the article) perfectly explains that even though there is undoubtedly a problem, a problem whose degree is not/can not be calculated (she also indirectly, simply by not giving it more article-time, makes us understand that the lack of statistics doesn't mean this problem doesn't exist or should not be resolved), this problem can and has already been solved, not by company policies or special rules, but simply by people treating others (women included) nicely, or as my first grade teacher taught me, by following the golden rule, treat others the way you want to be treated, and amazingly across all mindsets and ways of thinking this rule means, for anyone beginning from the wee age that they understand what those words mean, that one should be treated in a way that is free of bias, fair and rational.

I will read this article again, and I will recommend it to friends and acquaintances and family, because sexism is a problem beyond tech too (in certain industries it might be an even bigger problem). I think this article and hopefully ones like it that either exist already that I do not know of, or ones that will be written afterwards, are a great way to make us realise that all people should be treated the way that we want to be treated, and I truly believe that will be enough to fix the problem of "women in tech".

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by userium on Friday December 18, 2015 @09:48AM (#10758703)
Based on discussions we have had with women in tech at https://keepwomen.com, it's not just sexism, but many women leave tech due to working conditions (low salary, no advancement), work-life balance (too much travelling, commuting), or the company environment (poor cultural "fit"). Some solutions for retaining women in tech are e.g. flexible working hours, personal development opportunities and workforce diversity.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by falcolas on Friday December 18, 2015 @10:16AM (#10758845)
If I'm honest, it sounds like the same issues everybody in tech faces. We're all consistently under-compensated for the value we bring to the company (sometimes because measuring the value is genuinely hard, other times because the tech industry is solely focused on making investors money), have to leave a job to advance our careers, fight the internal politics and cliques which form between departments and teams...
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by asuffield on Friday December 18, 2015 @10:13AM (#10758831)
I would say, based on everything that I've seen and heard, that the problems you describe here are far bigger and more important than the things which usually dominate the debate. These problems are also not specific to gender: they affect most minority groups and also other wide swathes of the population (based on personality type, lifestyle, etc).

The tech industry norms have ended up favouring a very specific type of individual, and that is the fundamental problem that we need to address in order to get the genuinely diverse workforce that I believe we need. What usually frustrates me about the "sexism" debate is that it studiously avoids addressing these issues, and drowns out most attempts to focus on them.

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by eric-hu on Friday December 18, 2015 @10:45AM (#10759003)
Those are the same reasons I've heard for why we have a young age distribution in tech relative to the age distribution of the general population.

Poor industry retention seems to be a problem across the board.

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by sokoloff on Friday December 18, 2015 @03:44PM (#10760800)
How much of the industry retention problem is that the high pay scale allows for early retirement or early semi-retirement for many?

I'm in my mid-40s and could retire today if I wanted to. I don't because I really enjoy the challenge and stimulation of my work, but I could.

To the extent that's the root cause of low industry retention, I'd consider it a feature not a bug.

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by dikdik on Friday December 18, 2015 @02:31PM (#10760422)
I was just having a conversation with my roommate about why I have trouble identifying/believing a lot of feminist propaganda. And your statement is exactly why. Even when it is not a gender issue, femnism seems to only focus on improving female standing. That's not equality.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by PhasmaFelis on Saturday December 19, 2015 @01:16PM (#10764317)
This seems like seeing someone trying to stop genocide in the Congo, and yelling at them because they're not simultaneously trying to stop street violence in Brazil.

There are a lot of problems, they have varying magnitudes, and some people choose to focus on a particular problem. That's okay. It's frustrating how often it seems like feminists are expected to solve every problem in the world simultaneously to legitimize their attempts to solve one problem.

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by dikdik on Saturday December 19, 2015 @06:35PM (#10765349)
I think about it differently. They are alienating and fragmenting people that would otherwise be on their side by turning every issue into "this is how it affects me and since it affects me and my gender we have to fix it."

If we came together as people, regardless of gender, and demanded more rights in the work place (family leave instead of just focusing on maternity leave for example), we would have a LOT more standing to accomplish our goals.

By fragmenting the population, telling the middle class white guy it's his fault the middle class white woman doesn't have maternity leave because the boss happens to be a white male (though upperclass), you are only hurting your cause.

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by Balgair on Friday December 18, 2015 @01:25PM (#10759963)
Hmm, what does flexible working hours, personal development opportunities and workforce diversity mean in practice? The faults are hard measurable things, but the solutions are more fuzzy and not as easy to measure. When you measure flexible hours, what is your metric for saying that someone has that? When you say dev opportunities, how do I know if I have given my employees enough of them and of what quality? What does workforce diversity mean in terms of age, gender, sex, race, and religion and what targets should I shoot for? Should my workforce match the community I am in or the nation? I think a hard goal for these would be nice to have so I know what to shoot for and be 'good' (again, a fuzzy thing itself)
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by kazinator on Friday December 18, 2015 @01:56PM (#10760185)
Probably this has to be just be looked as simply avoiding being bad. To avoid being bad, you don't have to overcompensate; that just creates reverse biases. Just don't have a bias: for instance, don't make a decision because someone is a woman, or Asian or whatever. Any decision: hiring, awarding a raise or promotion, etc.

A discriminatory bias cannot be measured by simple proportions, like how many women work at Company X out of the total, and therefore it cannot be eliminated by something naive like a hiring quota or similar. Such a program necessarily involves making decisions based on gender, and so on and so doesn't avoid being bad.

The concept of "workforce diversity" is basically rooted in poor understanding of statistics, together with a willingness to apply a corrective discrimination. Even if half the software developers in a country are women, and there is no bias anywhere, it can still so happen that men constitute, say, 80% of the developers in some organization. Such an event has a certain nonzero probability which allows it to happen.

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by leaverou on Friday December 18, 2015 @03:39PM (#10760781)
“Just don’t have a bias”. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work like that. The problem is that it’s very hard to know when biases are affecting your decisions. You cannot just decide to not have them. Agreed though that fighting bias with bias is not a solution. What is the solution then? I don’t know. :(
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by Balgair on Friday December 18, 2015 @02:51PM (#10760545)
great points on the stats. BTW, re: your username; zisteau?
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by kazinator on Friday December 18, 2015 @01:36PM (#10760041)
If the low salary and no advancement are simply due to having XX chromosomes (similarly skilled and productive males at the same organization do get paid more and advance), then she's in fact leaving due to sexism, not simply working conditions.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by Grishnakh on Thursday December 24, 2015 @03:06PM (#10789436)
>work-life balance (too much travelling, commuting)

I have to take issue with this. Work/life balance is indeed a common problem in tech, with long working hours expected in many places when they make up unreasonable schedules.

However, I've never heard of traveling or commuting being big problems in tech at all. In my years as a software engineer, I only traveled a lot for a telecommute job where I had to meet with customers and also travel to the home office; outside of that I've barely traveled at all (and a good chunk of that was at a job during the dot-com boom when they were really liberal with travel funds and sent people to a lot of overpriced conferences and trade shows). For programmers, travel just isn't a big part of the job, unless you have a rare job where you need to meet with customers a lot (which is usually more of an applications engineering or sales support role).

As for commuting, that's entirely based on where you choose to live. It's probably a problem in the Bay Area, but in most other places it's no more a problem for tech workers than everyone else. Every metro area has problems with commuting: people frequently live not that close to work, due either to housing prices or because they already had a house and happened to get a job on the other side of the city or something. This isn't unique to tech jobs, except maybe the Bay Area thing because that metro area is dominated by tech jobs.

The problem with work/life balance in tech is working hours, and that's it. Tech workers are frequently expected to work too much, young males with no social lives are too often willing or able to dedicate too many hours to their jobs (thus making those who don't look bad), and as a result, people who value their free time (like, oh, women who tend to get pregnant and have children) don't do so well and get forced out.

Honestly, I'm not sure what the answer here is. Flexible working hours aren't going to help a working mother much if she's still expected to put in 12 hour days. The only answer I see is eliminating the "exempt" status for tech workers and having them be paid hourly like factory workers. This of course has its own set of problems. But it's exactly what they do for, say, nurses, who are also professional workers who are usually college educated.

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by mtrimpe on Friday December 18, 2015 @11:13AM (#10759175)
I really enjoyed the article but I hope that the conclusion is that it's now possible to live in a bubble (not meant pejoratively) where you don't experience sexism.

Being able to live in that bubble is probably dependent on class, status, confidence and certain personality traits; but it is possible and that's great!

It is really important though to realize that it is a bubble and to be mindful of where it ends and what happens when you hit the edges of the bubble.

Source: Being LGBT in Amsterdam and having lived in a similar bubble for a long time but eventually having it burst.

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by DanBC on Friday December 18, 2015 @07:10AM (#10758028)
> treat others the way you want to be treated,

You've never had a pathological arsehole for a boss?

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by hoorayimhelping on Friday December 18, 2015 @08:33AM (#10758305)
A lot of us have. And fuck that, I'm not letting some asshole change my behavior or outlook. I'm still going to follow my beliefs, even if he violates them and makes me want to tell him to fuck off. The notion of a golden rule wasn't thought up with people who smile at me and wish me well in mind - it was designed for the pathological asshole.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by indifferentalex on Friday December 18, 2015 @07:59AM (#10758186)
I'm still studying and have never encountered obstacles set up by people with institutional power over me, so I am to a degree naive and privileged, however I was talking more about the day to day interactions that happen with a myriad of different people, mostly your peers (which apart from a few instances where it was the "bosses of tech" causing the problems, from what I remember reading the sexism usually came from the coworkers of the women). I definitely wasn't commenting on the application of the author's thoughts to all of human interaction, and didn't mean to come off that naive.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by jstanley on Friday December 18, 2015 @08:14AM (#10758238)
> I'm still studying and have never encountered obstacles set up by people with institutional power over me

You'll meet more obstacles set up by people with institutional power over you at school and university than you ever will in the "real world".

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by GFK_of_xmaspast on Friday December 18, 2015 @08:51AM (#10758365)
Maybe you should wait until you get in the industry before you start speaking authoritatively about it.

(alternatively, "you're only 15, you don't have a rep yet")

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by cortesoft on Friday December 18, 2015 @04:53PM (#10761242)
Luckily in the tech industry, employees have a lot more power than in other industries. We can just leave and get another job.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by cbd1984 on Friday December 18, 2015 @12:28PM (#10759601)
You treat them nicely while you keep your records and protect yourself as well as you can. You can say "No" nicely, and you can instigate a lawsuit without ever losing your decorum or sense of fair play.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by fweespeech on Friday December 18, 2015 @12:50PM (#10759737)
I leave when I encounter that. Its the only viable solution when the other party in the relationship isn't reasonable.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by gotchange on Friday December 18, 2015 @09:13AM (#10758496)
> but simply by people treating others (women included) nicely, or as my first grade teacher taught me, by following the golden rule, treat others the way you want to be treated,

So, no more "ladies first" and gentleman treatment for women?

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by gvb on Friday December 18, 2015 @09:46AM (#10758693)
The golden rule requires you to be courteous regardless of gender. For instance, when you reach the door first, hold it open for the others, regardless of their gender.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by Ntrails on Friday December 18, 2015 @12:40PM (#10759683)
No, it doesn't. It says "If you would want them to hold the door open for you were the places switched, then hold the door open." Of course if I don't really care about it, then I'm free not to bother. If I would rather someone confronted me when my code is shit, rather than letting it slide, then that is how I treat everyone else too.

There is a strong argument to say the golden rule is really saying "treat others the way society tells you to" and some contend it should simply be "treat others the way they want to be treated".

Of course at that point you've lost the simplicity of the original phrase and the primary teaching implement of self interest.

Not to mention, at some point there are limits to the extent I am going to pander to someones wishes in how they want to be treated. I respect your right to self-identify as an attack helicopter, but I'm not going to bow my head as I approach to avoid your rotor blades.

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by squeaky-clean on Friday December 18, 2015 @12:53PM (#10759756)
More like no more gentlemanly treatment just because they're a woman. A real gentleman will be gentlemanly to everyone.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by pdex on Saturday December 19, 2015 @11:23AM (#10763944)
The golden rule applies to everyone regardless of gender. Think of it like how you would speak to your mother or father (assuming one has a healthy, respectful relationship of course).

If you speak to a female colleague, is it something you can say to your own mother and be taken as appropriate? Same for if it were a male colleague, are the words appropriate to say to your own father?

If the answer is "No" then don't say it, I wish more companies would enforce this in their culture.

I've run into childish inappropriateness more than anything, phrases not indented to harass, but are extremely disrespectful, not funny, and easily taken the wrong way.

An example: 5 of us, one of them a female, were chatting in a breakroom when a male colleague joked about using a "fleshlight" to relieve stress (I am leaving out details to keep this short). He was straight out of college and didn't have much professional experience. The female in the group became visibly uncomfortable and left. Since the conversation was more about to know our colleague's hobbies outside of work, it was an incredibly awkward turn to the conversation. "Pfff, what's with HER?" the offending person asks as the female walks off, not knowing what he did, so another male in the group asked him if he talks to his mom "like that" about his fleshlight habit, it wasn't until then that he realized he was being inappropriate and he then apologized to everyone. He also sought out the female who left the conversation to apologize to her directly. He learned his lesson, but I've seen examples on BOTH sides of inappropriate talk that can alienate a person who's gender is in the minority of the group.

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by NotOscarWilde on Sunday December 20, 2015 @04:04AM (#10766534)
I like this anecdote because it contains a non-sexist but inappropriate statement. It also shows that there are at least two possible mindsets:

* I talk to my coworkers like they are my mother

and your colleague's

* I talk to my coworkers like they are my friends

The fact that the statement was non-sexist hints at the problem being the second mindset; as for me, I make sure not to say sexist (and racist and so on) things to anyone but I am okay with talking about sex and other personal-jovial matters with my actual friends.

The "mother" analogy still has some flaws, though -- for instance, you can talk to your mother about financial, health-related and personal troubles, whereas your coworkers will feel uneasy with such information. Another thing is politics -- I try to politely argue against my mother's political views (say anti-immigration), but I think doing so in the workplace is a very bad idea.

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by pdex on Sunday December 20, 2015 @03:56PM (#10768267)
I think you get most of it, I was trying to convey that if you say something to colleagues at the workplace that is too disrespectful, sexually suggestive, vulgar or sexist to mention in front of either of your parents, it's a good common sense "warning flag" that it's probably not safe for work. I struggle with this myself, having a dark sense of humor. I hate seeing the perfect set up for a raunchy/sick punchline going to waste, but I'd also like to keep my job :)

Politics is a bit of a gray area. It's very easy to make people uncomfortable without realizing it, it's just a shitstorm waiting to happen. I try to avoid it unless I'm speaking in private with a colleague who I know extremely well.

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by Grishnakh on Thursday December 24, 2015 @03:14PM (#10789454)
The "like they are my mother" thing is really a bad analogy. A better one would be: "talk to coworkers like they are your grandmother" or "your aunt you only see once a year" or "your mother's female friend from church".
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by joe_the_user on Friday December 18, 2015 @05:29PM (#10761421)
I'd draw exactly the opposite conclusion. What matters isn't individual niceness but organization imperatives.

One thing to consider is that "Tech" encompasses a number of organization types. Organizations vary in both how large and bureaucratic they are as well as how ruthlessly competitive they are. Working at Intel years ago, I saw an organization committed to equality in the work place but with a brutal demand that everyone produce.

The worst offenders for sexism seem to be small organizations with a brutally competitive environments but not having bureaucratic restraints on bad behavior - Zillow, etc[1].

Honestly, the answer seems to be that you need more regulation and especially regulation that will hit small bad actor companies hard. The rules hardly have to be "special", just a basic demand for proper behavior and an understanding there will be serious consequences for violation.

[1] http://fortune.com/2014/12/05/zillow-discrimination-lawsuit/

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by drumdance on Saturday December 19, 2015 @10:31AM (#10763799)
> organization imperatives

That's my feeling as well. My sister has worked in tech since 1981, but it's not Silicon Valley tech. It's large company tech like IBM and Citigroup. I asked if she's ever felt discriminated against and she said never. The closest she's come is working for a company that had a bit of a military culture because most of the senior leadership were ex-military. But even there she never felt discriminated against for being a woman per se.

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by SuperComputing on Friday December 18, 2015 @09:26AM (#10758571)
And the "sexism" debate was stirred by people who were only tangentially involved in Tech, like the PR person "Adria Richards". If you listen to actual women with actual Math, CS, or EE degrees, you'll hear a different story.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by dragonwriter on Friday December 18, 2015 @12:45PM (#10759702)
> And the "sexism" debate was stirred by people who were only tangentially involved in Tech, like the PR person "Adria Richards". If you listen to actual women with actual Math, CS, or EE degrees, you'll hear a different story.

As someone whose listened to actual women with Math, CS, and EE degrees (and women who are working in technical roles without degrees in those fields, as both women and men in the field do), I disagree. You'll hear a mix of stories from those women, some positive, some as bad (or worse) than those from women "tangentially involved" in tech.

OTOH, I don't think that sexism in the tech industry would fail to be a problem if it only victimized women in non- (or less-)technical roles within the industry.

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by GFK_of_xmaspast on Friday December 18, 2015 @01:38PM (#10760055)
It's the "actually listen to women" part that a lot of people here have problems with.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by Chris2048 on Friday December 18, 2015 @04:35PM (#10761125)
The "listen to women" part that people take issue with is being expected to assume legitimacy, and hence support any draconian policy proposed, all based on subjective testimony. Ask a certain UVA frat about that.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by CyberDildonics on Saturday December 19, 2015 @11:45PM (#10766086)
If you want people to listen maybe you need something better to say than ridiculous generalizations.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by fweespeech on Friday December 18, 2015 @12:48PM (#10759724)
http://blog.linkedin.com/2015/06/17/measuring-gender-diversi...

> Technology companies are generally considered to be some of the most sought-after employers in the world. We have an inherent “home field advantage” when it comes to recruiting the largest and richest talent pools of our most critical position: software engineers. However, despite this advantage, our data indicates that software engineering teams in tech have proportionally fewer women than several non-tech industries; namely healthcare, retail, government, education, and nonprofits. For example, a typical software engineering team in a healthcare company is likely to be 32% women, compared to 20% in technology. While these non-tech industries employ significantly fewer software engineers versus technology, their teams tend to exhibit greater gender parity.

You don't end up with 50% women in other industries with basically the same role without some sort of reason.

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by ksenzee on Friday December 18, 2015 @10:37AM (#10758961)
Right. My title is Senior Software Engineer, with the corresponding experience and salary, but since my degrees are not in one of those three fields, I'm only tangentially involved in tech. Thanks for providing such a succinct demonstration of the kind of dismissal "actual women" in the field get to hear all the time.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by Joeboy on Friday December 18, 2015 @10:50AM (#10759035)
> since my degrees are not in one of those three fields, I'm only tangentially involved in tech

That conclusion cannot reasonably be inferred from the post you are responding to.

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by danielmason on Friday December 18, 2015 @02:21PM (#10760358)
Are you being serious? That's exactly what's being implied. Which part of tangentially involved in tech juxtaposed with unlike women with Math, CS, or EE degrees would lead you to read that differently?
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by Joeboy on Friday December 18, 2015 @03:23PM (#10760712)
I am honestly as confused by your interpretation as you are by mine. I don't have any of those degrees, and I don't infer that Supercomputing is dismissing me as "tangentially" involved in tech. They are suggesting that Adria Richards' "Developer Evangelist" role wasn't a real technical role, which I couldn't really comment on. I don't think they are implying that ksenzee's "Senior Software Engineer" role doesn't count as a technical role.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by ksenzee on Friday December 18, 2015 @04:54PM (#10761246)
Certainly, and your interpretation is logical. I agree the original commenter didn't necessarily mean to imply that. However, they appear to have bought into a kind of false dichotomy that gets applied to women and minorities all too often. It's a mindset where there are "fake" woman developers (or gamers, or whatever), and there are "real" woman developers, and you only get perceived as one of the "real" developers if you meet an unusually high standard. It's tiresome to be on the receiving end of it.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by throwaway234235 on Saturday December 19, 2015 @07:17PM (#10765472)
You just said you agree the OP didnt mean to imply it yet you're making a rather big statement about dismissal that only you seem to see. Which is just as problematic.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by mysticllama on Friday December 18, 2015 @11:23AM (#10759229)
Look at the population of women in fields such as:law, medicine, social science, etc. and you'll see that STEM lags behind in parity. The percentage of women in computing, according to some studies, isn't much higher than it was in 1960! [2]

From my perspective as a software engineer, we work in a male-dominated field, and we've made the work culture and norms what we want them to be [1]. The few women who do end up on engineering tracks often leave, and in a lot of cases they move into engineering support roles (dev evangelist, marketing, etc.).

I think Adria Richards is a loud, exceptional example that doesn't tell the story here. The reality is, this is a very quiet, insidious problem; women are walking away from our field, or just not showing up.

I don't believe that half of the best of the best talent pool just doesn't want to do engineering like the other half. There's a reason they're disinclined, and I accept that I'm part of it -- I'd like to see it change, and I think we have a responsibility to do better. I believe that as an industry, our future suffers for it.

http://www.usnews.com/news/stem-index/articles/2015/06/29/ge... [1]

In 2013, only 26% of computing professionals were female — down considerably from 35% in 1990 and virtually the same as in 1960. While the percentage of women in engineering has risen since 1990, the progress is modest –rising from 9% in 1990 to 12% in 2013.

http://fortune.com/2015/03/26/report-the-number-of-women-ent... [2]

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by ManFromUranus on Friday December 18, 2015 @01:14PM (#10759897)
Why does nobody make this argument about Nursing, or Teaching, or Social Work, or Psychology, or any of the "Female dominated" fields? When men don't go into a field, they find a way to blame men for it, when women don't go into a field, they find a way to blame men for it. Don't women have any agency? Are they dumb robots that only do what men tell them? Maybe they don't WANT to be in STEM fields...
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by dragonwriter on Friday December 18, 2015 @01:18PM (#10759916)
> Why does nobody make this argument about Nursing, or Teaching, or Social Work, or Psychology, or any of the "Female dominated" fields?

People make this argument about female dominated fields (particularly education and nursing, which are, or have been, areas of perceived shortages) all the time; they probably don't make it as often in tech industry focused discussion fora, for reasons of lack of relevance to the venue.

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by Qworg on Friday December 18, 2015 @03:50PM (#10760829)
Another issue with this argument is that all of those fields are considerable less well remunerated than technology.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by microcolonel on Friday December 18, 2015 @04:35PM (#10761127)
http://www.livingin-canada.com/salaries-for-registered-nurse...

http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=Registered_Nurse_(RN...

The average yearly income of a nurse in my country is between $3k less, and $10k more than the average salary of a software developer in my country, depending on the source.

Although the stresses are perhaps not comparable, it's important to note that a nurse working the same hours as a typical software developer could expect to earn around twice as much.

Mind you, educational requirements may be more expensive than for software developers. I'm not familiar enough to speak to that.

http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Employer=Toronto_Distric...

An average elementary school teacher in a nearby city makes about $3k less than an average software developer, with around 7 weeks paid leave. At least one female respondent in another nearby municipality recorded having 10 weeks of paid leave and full benefits. With that, I think that total compensation must be at least on-par.

http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=Social_Worker/Salary...

Average salary of a social worker is around $15k less than that of software developers in my country. I don't know as much about social work. I suspect it's good, hard work. I hear that it's risky. Benefits packages are mostly ubiquitous though.

Of the small sample on this site, all respondents said that they were extremely satisfied with their employment as a Social worker.

http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=Clinical_Psychologis...

Average clinical psychologist salaries are about $25k higher than average software developer salaries in my country. Likely owing to higher typical educational requirements.

Of the small sample on this site, all respondents said that they were extremely satisfied with their employment as a Clinical Psychologist.

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by kaitai on Saturday December 19, 2015 @01:58PM (#10764457)
Canada is nice.

Teachers in the US make on average $58k or so, varying from state to state quite a lot. It's about $30k less than the average software developer in the US, and if you're not very senior as a teacher you might get fired every year and rehired in fall. It's not a very secure job in many places, actually, even if you can teach math or science.

Nurses in the US make a lot more money, on par with developers, but much more physically and emotionally demanding.

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by GFK_of_xmaspast on Friday December 18, 2015 @01:38PM (#10760058)
People bring this up in every single thread about sexism in HN and almost every single time somebody gives them a cite to any of the several of efforts dedicated to getting dudes in those fields.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by Chris2048 on Friday December 18, 2015 @04:41PM (#10761175)
Which is meaningless without means of comparison. The fact that programs exist somewhere in the world tells us nothing about the importance placed, or resources spent, on those efforts.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by drumdance on Saturday December 19, 2015 @10:33AM (#10763805)
Maybe if you actually worked in said industry you've have a better sense of the environment. I doubt the average nurse (male or female) knows much about how the tech industry works.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by Chris2048 on Sunday December 20, 2015 @12:30PM (#10767606)
How many articles in mainstream media bemoan the lack, or treatment of, male nurses compared to IT workers?

Your comment has little to do with the comment you are responding to.

Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by drumdance on Saturday December 26, 2015 @08:49PM (#10796062)
This is not a mainstream media article. It's a blog post. I doubt my cousin the insurance adjuster ever heard about it, just as I never hear stories about the insurance industry.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by anon4 on Friday December 18, 2015 @01:01PM (#10759808)
For law and medicine - is it because there's less sexism, or because the fields are more prestigious and therefore women who wish to be in those fields let more of it slide in the interest of retaining and advancing their career?
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by theinternetman on Friday December 18, 2015 @11:59AM (#10759440)
Way to downplay their contributions in tech just because they work in a department you don't deem as important.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by oldmanjay on Friday December 18, 2015 @04:08PM (#10760943)
There is a very basic dynamic at play here. Take away every department outside of engineering and you still have the chance to actually make technology. Take away engineering and you have literally nothing. The contributions don't need to be downplayed. Logic demonstrates the hierarchy of importance rather plainly.
Re:My positive experience as a woman in tech by typon on Saturday December 19, 2015 @01:58PM (#10764458)
This is rather funny comment made on a place like Hacker News, full of web developers who refer to themselves as "Engineers".