The media focus has been solely on VW, despite others doing the same.
This is enough that VW can show to be unfairly targeted, as it’s standard market practice.
If VW can show that others did the same, but did not get the same media resonance, then VW can sue for the lost sales based on an estimation of the difference in reputation loss.
Hell, even other companies in Germany have reported lost sales due to the "German engineering = pollution" that US media have pushed recently.
That's because there is evidence about VW.
> This is enough that VW can show to be unfairly targeted, as it’s standard market practice.
No, it really is not.
> If VW can show that others did the same, but did not get the same media resonance, then VW can sue for the lost sales based on an estimation of the difference in reputation loss.
It's an interesting theory about how the law could work but unfortunately somewhat detached from what I know about how the law actually works. VW does not get to claim any 'lost sales' directly attributable to their own conduct, regardless of who reported on it and how frequently even if all their competitors did it too. If VW has evidence that other manufacturers cheat as well they're probably more than welcome to present it. (And if they had such evidence they probably would.)
> Hell, even other companies in Germany have reported lost sales due to the "German engineering = pollution" that US media have pushed recently.
Yes, and VW is to blame for that. Not the US media.
9.
VW is not the only one in this whole situation.
In case of VW, in addition to that report an actual device to fool the tests was discovered.
(And, in reality, I’d say the US government is more influenced by the media than the other way around – as can be seen in the situation with Comcast, TWC, etc)
But if everybody else isn’t equally punished, or equally investigated, than that is against the constitution, too.
You keep making these grand claims about the constitution and the law and this whole VW affair that have absolutely no basis in fact. Please stop that it is just throwing up a huge smokescreen and it measurably devalues the discussion.
I'm sure that it fits your worldview but fwiw no matter how hard and how often you write this stuff it does not make it true. The constitution has absolutely nothing to do with this, VW was not 'singled out' and you are actively harming your reputation on HN. As a German student I understand that you feel that VW has been treated 'unfair' but they brought this on themselves, BMW was tested as well and passed the test even though they too emitted more NOx than they should have depending on the circumstances, they did not use a 'test defeat device'.
From what we have in terms of evidence to date no other company has engaged in such blatant fraud in this respect as VW has. If you have evidence (as in hard evidence, not just hunches) that another manufacturer also employs a cheating device then you could make headlines the world over by sharing that proof and I for one would be very supportive of you.
But all these statements that defend VW and even suggest that VW could recover their losses because they've been treated unfairly are not based in fact and make it seem like you are of good intentions but other than that do not appear to have much knowledge of how these things work. So a word to the wise: you have but one reputation, you build it up slowly over the years and you can lose and/or damage that reputation quickly.
Please don't let your sense of indignation get the better of you and hurt your interests in the longer term.
The amount of media VW gets over this issue is irrelevant to any damages you may try to conjure up.
People may say whatever they like.
0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10580490 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10718312
What do you think they would have used if VW had not conveniently committed fraud?
I think "Americans" can be replaced with "people in general" (including Europeans and Asians as well)
Simple searching on google showed me on the first page (third result).
The amount of truth we see is relative to the intension we're having. The rest just seems invisible to us.
Few more thoughts from Chomsky related to the theme of our discussion regarding truth:
“Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.” (Exactly fit for responses I got re my geo-political remark)
“Everyone’s worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there’s really an easy way: Stop participating in it.” (Yay, so true. But we're more concerned about how perfect and moral our regulation structure is, that it punishes the right people with right evidence... but evidence can be shown when it's the most convenient time to show them)
“It is the responsibility of intellectuals to speak the truth and expose lies.” (Who likes truth anyway?)
“For the powerful, crimes are those that others commit.”
("Hey, Germany ministers are towing the line and aren't repeating our propaganda, how can we show them their place?" "Well, let's call our regulatory depts., we must be having some violation reports waiting to be show light of the day at this opportune moment. Find the one with biggest potential impact, and, and we'll have the compliance of Germany without shotting a single bullet." "Yeah, this will also set example for other European vassals, who lately tries to have independent voice. They must be shown their right place before it's too late.")
For two entities to be independent, there needs to be little control in both directions.
With certainty? No.
US Government is a collection of individuals theoretically bound by a (very-large) shared text, or program, if you will. Do media corporations have some measure of influence on some of those individuals? Undoubtedly.
I am fairly certain that the individuals who make up the US Government are not all on media corporation payrolls.
>Judging by the political "activism" regularly displayed by Fox and CNN, I think it's fair to say that the media exerts a lot of control over the executive and legislative branches.
This makes sense. US Government is structured such that it arises from the people it is governing. If that structure is to be used, it requires public communication (ie. media).
If a US company does the same, but does not get the same media exposure, reputation loss, and fees, then it is unfair targeting.
VW can then directly sue, because they, as foreign company, were targeted, but another US manufacturer was not.
There's an actual evidence they that VW was cheating so they deserved it. What would be great is that if they could spill the beans on other manufacturers so others would be punished as well.
One of the big concerns with TTP/TTIP is that they will expand the use and applicability of ISDS processes and this could impact things like environmental legislation.
Part of the concern about the use of ISDS is that the hearings are generally held in secret.
In this case I guess if it could be proven that the US government disadvantaged VW by applying fines to them whilst not prosecuting other companies who have done similar things, then if ISDS applies to this trade, it may be possible for VW to sue...
Anybody except for VW would be in a position to make a move regarding other manufacturers, according to a document linked elsewhere from a German auto magazine there is plenty of reason to suspect that other manufacturers are engaging in similar practices but nobody to date has proof.
So, yes, it’s trivial to show that the EPA had the same amount of knowledge against others as they had against VW, because the original document already had that.
If you want an easy to digest article on the subject please read:
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/23/researcher-how-vw-got-cau...
And if you want less easy to digest material go read the actual study pdfs (they're linked in the wikipedia article on 'dieselgate' and are very interesting reading but it will take some time there are 100+ pages there).
So you are way off base with the claims in this comment.
Note that the WVU report does not state that evidence of a cheating device has been found. It was merely the catalyst (pun intended) in the whole affair causing the EPA to put a much bigger effort into the VW engine than they had up to that point and this is where the cheating device was uncovered.
Let me make one thing clear: I've not defended VW for the cheating they've done, not even once. I've just drawn attention toward the bigger picture within these events have unfolded and because commenters have raised questions as to why VW has been targeted so swiftly despite it's apparent that other manufacturers are having similar issues (more or less).
These are common ways of how back-door negotiations and arm-twistings occur. Neither Obama nore Merkle would publically admit to you in your face of these things. But we the public remain foolish to dismiss such an evident corelation as conspiracy. Or do you think we live in a utopian world where every official action is guided by altruistic motive? Well if yes, you may very well see what's happening in Syria, the whole of world's major power are flighting their airforces, just to defeat bunch of terrorist? who are anyway financed by oil smuggling to countries part of the coalition .... give me a break.
You should read my earlier comment on US policy of wars in Middle East https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10580490
Well if you doubt that politics cannot plan and execute such policies for decades then you're fooling yourself. Evidence are right there just need to open our eyes.
But that isn't the case. There is 0 evidence that other manufacturers also included a defeat-the-test device, there is evidence that other manufacturers diesels exceed their permitted level of NOx in various circumstances but they do not employ a device that detects the tests and then re-programs the engine to comply with the test. It just so happens that under test conditions those engines more or less perform as advertised, there is no 'mode switch' based on the detection of a test in progress to reprogram the engine parameters. That's a totally different kettle of fish, the one is a narrow set of parameters where the engine will pass the test, the other means the engine will never perform as advertised except when under test.
HSBC was participating kneck to kneck with drug smugglers and making billions a week from that illegal and immoral trade. eventually they were fined only a few billion which they make from that same business within 2/3 weeks. Noone got jailed.
But what happened to the individuals who happened to run digital currency based platform for the same?
My point is that both were involved in similar illegal practices, but justice delivered to each was not equal. Surely justice was decided based on several interests, of which the law was mere one of the parameters (often an insignificant one when the convict is a powerful entity.)
actions of this magnitude are generally guided by multiple and often hidden interests/agenda. Only if we able to perceive the bigger picture by analyzing from different angles.
Yes, VW got hit hard, but there is only one party that could have taken action to avoid this: VW itself. If they cheated that's entirely their choice. If other manufacturers have in fact cheated (and the evidence seems to be mounting that they did but maybe not quite as blatantly) then their turn will surely come.
The EPA ignored the results for a full year.
The VW CEO already resigned in April, several months before the EPA went crazy, due to it.
If it turns out that other competitors did the same, VW – and even other German companies, due to the hit the brand "Made in Germany" got from this – might be able to sue the US via ISDS for lost sales in hundreds of billions.