News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Show HN: Jukedeck – create unique, royalty-free music for... by drzaiusapelord on Wednesday December 09, 2015 @03:45PM (#10706601)
> If the AI created the tracks, why does the company own the copyright

Uh, do you think there's a sentient being here? Its just a relatively simple algorithm here (at least compared to sci-fi style AI), the same kind of thing that decides how to autofix colors in photos or do a transform in photoshop.

Dynamic music generation has been a thing since at least the 80s. I think I had an Apple// program that did this.

>works created by a non-human are not subject to U.S. copyright

I'd like to see you prove some silly music generator is on the equal footing of a living and intelligent animal to any court. I can't imagine you not being laughed out of courtroom.

Re:Show HN: Jukedeck – create unique, royalty-free music for... by DennisP on Wednesday December 09, 2015 @04:07PM (#10706756)
The program wouldn't own the copyright, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the company which made the program would own the copyright. It could end up public domain.

E.g. the recently infamous selfie by a monkey was ruled public domain, having been produced by a non-human.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_selfie

Re:Show HN: Jukedeck – create unique, royalty-free music for... by lifeformed on Wednesday December 09, 2015 @07:20PM (#10707948)
I don't get that monkey selfie ruling. If the photographer deliberately gave the monkey a camera to take pictures, shouldn't the photographer be the owner of it? If the monkey isn't a legal entity, why is it considered the creator? If I dropped my camera on the floor and the button got pressed, is the floor now the creator of the image? If I set the automatic-timer function on my camera, is the timer mechanism now the creator of the image?
Re:Show HN: Jukedeck – create unique, royalty-free music for... by bpicolo on Wednesday December 09, 2015 @04:23PM (#10706852)
Software expressly created by a human here.
Re:Show HN: Jukedeck – create unique, royalty-free music for... by Nadya on Wednesday December 09, 2015 @04:27PM (#10706883)
Doesn't hold up. Library of Babel and the Universal Slideshow would be able to claim copyright on all photographs and literature because all photographs and all literature that ever will be or ever was is contained within their corpus/gallery.

Every picture you've ever taken, the Universal Slideshow already contains that picture. The picture of your birth, every memorable moment of your life, and every possible variation of your death.

[0] http://libraryofbabel.info/

[1] https://babelia.libraryofbabel.info/slideshow.html

Re:Show HN: Jukedeck – create unique, royalty-free music for... by tdb7893 on Wednesday December 09, 2015 @04:39PM (#10706955)
They probably would only have copyright over what they create, not everything they could create
Re:Show HN: Jukedeck – create unique, royalty-free music for... by Nadya on Wednesday December 09, 2015 @04:41PM (#10706972)
Everything is already created. In regards to the Library of Babel, you can even search the library to verify this. (There is an extended Library that contains entire novels to be searched - the web version is a bit smaller/limited to pages.)

It's already there it just needs to be found. That's the entire point!

Re:Show HN: Jukedeck – create unique, royalty-free music for... by level3 on Wednesday December 09, 2015 @05:30PM (#10707244)
This is a false claim. The Library of Babel is far from complete; the site itself only claims completion up to 3200-character texts. And that's limited only to lower-case alphabetic letters, periods, commas, and spaces. So there is still a vast amount of possible texts that haven't yet been created.
Re:Show HN: Jukedeck – create unique, royalty-free music for... by anigbrowl on Wednesday December 09, 2015 @05:59PM (#10707450)
Irrelevant. It includes numerous works within those constraints that would ordinarily be subject to copyright. I tried it with a variety of short poems I know, both in and out of copyright, so there's more than enough amterial here for a test case, even though it doesn't include all possible material.
Re:Show HN: Jukedeck – create unique, royalty-free music for... by Nadya on Wednesday December 09, 2015 @06:05PM (#10707492)
The Library of Babel that is online has those limits, yes. Which is why I explicitly mentioned I wasn't referring to the website.

>(There is an extended Library that contains entire novels to be searched - the web version is a bit smaller/limited to pages.)

The creator has variations of the code that aren't online. For example, lower-case alphabetical letters was a choice to "remain true to the original concept" but a base64 variation that allows for capital letters is possible. Furthermore - searching for entire books rather than being limited to 3,200 characters is also possible. Also other languages would also be possible but require further variations of the code.

It's just having this work on the web to a website that sees 30-40k daily visitors because the algorithm isn't fast enough to meet those demands.

[0] https://libraryofbabel.info/forum/?bbp_user=1&bbp_reps=1&pag...

E:

Rate limited in posts. My reply to the below is as follows:

Your claims only hold for the web version. I was not speaking of the web version. So you are explicitly wrong. There is a version of the library that is not limited to those characters, that is not limited to lowercase Latin alphabet, and is not limited to being searched 3,200 characters at a time. So what are you contending by making such statements?

Yes. The web version is held to those limits. Which is why I explicitly mentioned I was not referring to the web version. Your claims only hold against the web version. So I'm not seeing the point you are trying to make here.

E2:

I hate how HN rate limits like this. :)

I'll concede that. Does ASCII art of a Chinese character represent the same information as the Chinese character? That's stretching things so I'm not making that as a counterpoint - but more of a thought experiment.

For example: https://libraryofbabel.info/bookmark.cgi?ygofnzdyjijlsc299

Re:Show HN: Jukedeck – create unique, royalty-free music for... by level3 on Wednesday December 09, 2015 @06:12PM (#10707544)
I'm not challenging the claim that it contains a lot of texts; I'm challenging the claim that "everything has already been created and just needs to be found." That claim is explicitly false, regardless of the version of the Library of Babel you are using.

Edit: Reply to your reply: One inherent limitation with the current code is that it has to assume some encoding. Currently, there is no encoding that contains all known glyphs (e.g the Prince symbol, uncommon kanji, etc) so there will be texts that can not currently be generated, regardless of how much you increase the character set.

Edit2: Even if one were to allow ASCII art to represent a character, you then have the problem of how to distinguish between ASCII art substitution and actual ASCII art. Consider "Densha Otoko," which basically consists of message board posts that often contain ASCII art.

http://portal.nifty.com/2007/04/15/b/img/012.jpg

Re:Show HN: Jukedeck – create unique, royalty-free music for... by kevin_thibedeau on Wednesday December 09, 2015 @04:24PM (#10706860)
There is no point in the process where a human puts a creative stamp on the result. Your chiptunes did. This is effectively a fancy PRNG tuned to create appealing patterns. Copyright doesn't apply to non-creative works.
Re:Show HN: Jukedeck – create unique, royalty-free music for... by m1sta_ on Wednesday December 09, 2015 @05:41PM (#10707323)
The author of the work created the scenario which resulted in the work. There was intent, effort, and creativity involved in this.
Re:Show HN: Jukedeck – create unique, royalty-free music for... by scotty79 on Wednesday December 09, 2015 @05:38PM (#10707306)
> the same kind of thing that decides how to autofix colors in photos or do a transform in photoshop

Why doesn't then Adobe own result of whatever "autofix colors" produces?

Re:Show HN: Jukedeck – create unique, royalty-free music for... by anentropic on Thursday December 10, 2015 @05:33AM (#10709929)
exactly