News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches by fleitz on Thursday January 07, 2010 @05:29PM (#1038178)
This will lead the way so they can start taxing BMW and Mercedes to revive buggy whip manufacturing. Truly visionary.
Re:France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches by joubert on Thursday January 07, 2010 @06:03PM (#1038261)
Did you read the article?

What you're saying is analogous to saying our govt't taxing of telephone calls will lead to us reverting back sending smoke signals from Manhattan to DC, or using carrier pigeons.

Re:France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches by aarongough on Thursday January 07, 2010 @06:16PM (#1038296)
Methinks some sarcasm was embedded in the tone of the original comment here...
Re:France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches by joubert on Thursday January 07, 2010 @06:23PM (#1038321)
But I think his sarcasm is an extension of the snide tone in the article, while missing the major point (which the journalist actually made in the introduction before diving into the culture-maintainance mumbo jumbo) - i.e. one set of companies are paying taxes on their revenue, while another industry isn't.
Re:France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches by fleitz on Thursday January 07, 2010 @06:45PM (#1038363)
Both companies are paying taxes on their income, it's just that Google, MS and Yahoo choose to derive their revenue in a country that is more friendly to their operations (Ireland). France wants to tax the action (the click) instead of income (the advertising which is purchased in Ireland).

IMHO France is putting up the digital piracy bogey man to satiate the content industry while also allowing it to pass a tax onto it's populace. Once people become used to the tax they will increase it and divert the profits elsewhere. Of course I can't prove because it involves future actions that may or may not take place and the intent may not currently be there.

The irony of it all is that the telephone example is an example of my point that gov'ts keep taxes around long after their initial reasons for existence have passed. Income tax being another great example. I think the debts of WW1 have long since been paid.

Re:France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches by joubert on Thursday January 07, 2010 @06:57PM (#1038385)
But that's my point - aren't they really deriving their advertising income as, when, and where a user clicks on an ad?

Google Ads are different from regular advertising since the revenue accrues at the time the user clicks and located where that transaction occurs, which is on the user's desktop (i.e. place of delivery).

Re:France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches by fleitz on Thursday January 07, 2010 @06:06PM (#1038269)
I believe that the taxes on phone calls are to pay for the Spanish-American War and not to subsidize the smoke signal industry. If the taxes on phone calls were put into place and the revenues given to the smoke signal industry, then YES I emphatically say that the objective is to lead us back to smoke signals.
Re:France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches by joubert on Thursday January 07, 2010 @06:11PM (#1038281)
Who is the smoke signal industry in the French online advertising tax case?
Re:France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches by fleitz on Thursday January 07, 2010 @06:32PM (#1038339)
I believe it is supposed to be content "producers" but this seems to be conflated with content distributors.

From the article: "This may explain why the French first lady's producer, Patrick Zelnik, was tasked with leading the commission, which came up with the proposals. One of these suggests taxing internet service providers to raise tens of millions of pounds for developing the online music business and other creative sectors. The funds would go towards financing schemes such as a government-subsidised digital subscription for 15 to 24-year-olds to download music cheaply to wean them off illegal piracy."

Re:France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches by aarongough on Thursday January 07, 2010 @05:31PM (#1038185)
Haha, very much along the lines of what I was thinking.

Isn't the idea behind capitalism that good businesses succeed, while bad businesses fail? What happens when all of the bad businesses are propped up by government subsidies?

^sigh^ whatever happened to letting the market decide...

Re:France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches by jonny_noog on Thursday January 07, 2010 @05:43PM (#1038206)
^sigh^ whatever happened to letting the market decide...

It was realised that it was not the most effective method to maintain profits for those established individuals and organisations that have the clout to influence government policy. Let's hope that one day this changes, but I'm not holding my breath.

Re:France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches by onewland on Thursday January 07, 2010 @05:52PM (#1038230)
I don't think we ever let the market decide EVERYTHING. See: airlines, military contractors, banks (before this crisis as well).

I'm not even sure we're in a period where this is more pervasive than usual. That said, I agree that in 99% of cases corporate welfare is a terrible idea.

Re:France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches by joubert on Thursday January 07, 2010 @06:00PM (#1038252)
The tax is to be levied irrespective of the (major) search engine used.
Re:France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches by aarongough on Thursday January 07, 2010 @06:12PM (#1038282)
But the money is still being used to prop up a market that cannot support itself. If it was a vital service (like maybe a utility service) then I could understand. But we are talking about the music industry!
Re:France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches by joubert on Thursday January 07, 2010 @06:21PM (#1038311)
But why should search engines be able to escape paying taxes on their advertising revenues, while the music industry must pay taxes on their revenues?
Re:France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches by aarongough on Thursday January 07, 2010 @07:04PM (#1038396)
You keep saying the same thing again and again. It's still not correct.

The companies that own the search engines are already paying tax on their advertising revenue. See other person's comment above.

Re:France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches by joubert on Thursday January 07, 2010 @07:25PM (#1038435)
But they're not paying tax in France, where, one can argue the advertising revenue originates as and when the user clicks on the ad since it is only then that the good is considered delivered (very different from traditional advertising).
Re:France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches by aarongough on Thursday January 07, 2010 @07:41PM (#1038465)
One could argue that. But advertising is a product. If I sell a product to a person in France from my Canada based company, I do not have to pay taxes on that revenue in France.

Why should this case be any different.

Re:France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches by joubert on Thursday January 07, 2010 @11:00PM (#1038815)
Depends on where the sale is made (and in this case it would be hard to argue the sale is being made in Ireland, no?), and how residency is determined.

The origination of revenue concept, residency, etc. in tax law is continuously being tested, both by governments and by companies, in a tug of war.

Consider this case of affiliate advertising (which, although different in specifics from the French case, has the same tone and a similar legal path):

http://venturebeat.com/2009/04/24/california’s-proposed-“ama...

In particular, this bit: "Here’s how it would work: If you have a web-based business in California and collect revenue by showing out-of-state companies’ ads on your site, Bill AB178 will claim that both you and the businesses you advertise on your site have residence in California, and are therefore required to pay California sales tax. For example, say your Santa Monica-based web site shows banner ads for Amazon.com. With Bill AB178 in place, Amazon.com would be classified as a California-based business based on the fact that your business draws affiliate advertising sales revenue. Amazon would then be required to collect sales tax on all sales into California. The idea behind the bill is that California could force out-of-state retailers to collect and pay California sales taxes."

You can also read more about it here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=4...

Re:France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches by ericd on Thursday January 07, 2010 @06:12PM (#1038287)
He was talking about the "creative industries hurt by the digital revolution" being the ones propped up by this, not the poor search engines.
Re:France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches by joubert on Thursday January 07, 2010 @06:19PM (#1038308)
But isn't the dying industry paying taxes on their revenues while the poor search engines are not paying taxes on their advertising revenues?