This need to be worshipped is what I found to be the most bizarre characteristic of deities. Seriously, why would someone who can create space, time, universe and everything care the slightest bit about whether or not a bunch of Homo sapiens perform all these weird acts that worshipping entails? Too needy.

Maybe the need is not for God but for us?

Or maybe it's all made up

Maybe it's neither for God nor for us but rather for the benefit of those claiming to speak on behalf of God.

In the specific case of Jehova, Eph 2:7 addresses this question: "So God can point to us in all future ages as examples of the incredible wealth of his grace and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us who are united with Christ Jesus." -NLT

This is just begging the question--why does she need to be able to point us out in all future ages in the first place? What use does that have?

Great question honestly. Apparently this is an outcome that is greatly valued by Jehova. That's the best I can do. Eternity future is almost as vaguely addressed as eternity past.

How does that answer the question? Can you break it down simply?

In this question I saw one of the classic agnostic lines of thought which is "If there is a God, why would he care about us at all? Why would he care what we think, say and do? We can't be the center of the Universe. We can't be the focus of all creation. That's just hubris."

I love this question, because its humble, searching, sincere. Why does God want our praise? He, or any deity, is far far above it. Why go through all this trouble creating this elaborate mess just to talk to a bunch of specks of protein. None of it, none of Christianity made sense to me. The purpose behind it all. Its just stupid.

But there it was in Ephesians 2:7, God's reason. I was relieved because it is a selfish reason. I couldn't stand the idea that God is just love love love... it was just giving and getting nothing in return. And it didn't reflect the Jehova of the Old Testament. But Ephesians says he did it for the glory. Who's going to be the witness of that? What peer-group or other beings would God point to and say "There I did it, I'm amazing."? I have no clue. However, this is so refreshing to me, because it shows that God is possessive and jealous, and very much like us, who were "made in his image".

But, I have to agree with agnostics... humans are far from the center of the universe. God is. Its his game. His strange, fearsome, terrible, wonderful work.

Very interesting, thank you for the response. How can God be perfect and just if he is possessive and jealous? Maybe God isn't actually a perfect being , but instead an advanced creature (who seems to be fairly needy) living in a higher order universe playing with a giant lego set (our own universe). But then who created God and the world he lives in? Heh.

Please don't induce religious flamewars on HN. There's nothing more off-topic, uncivil, and tedious.

My comment was none of those things. Religion is intrinsically related to the topic of secularism.

A generic drive-by provocation about religion is all of those things (as is clear from this ridiculous subthread) and not welcome on Hacker News. Please don't do it again.

It wasn't "drive-by" it was directly related to the topic. Please don't post any further insulting condescending comments.

Why do we need that? Reasons, please.

Salvation

Okay, I've cooled down a bit and I'll say this: You're free to believe whatever you want to believe. Can I just request that, in the future, you don't come in guns blazing and saying that all people need is Jesus? It's great if Christianity is working for you. Try and understand that it doesn't work for everyone.

EDIT: To provide context since the parent comment was deleted, they were asking for a logical breakdown of why Jesus would require worship in order to provide salvation.

To break it down: God is completely pure (without sin). To be with God (which is what we would call 'salvation') we would also need to be without sin. Obviously, no human is without sin - meaning we could never be with God. Prior to Jesus, we were required to sacrifice things in order to atone for our sins and get right with God. Jesus provided an eternal, perfect sacrifice to pay for everyone's sins. It isn't so much that we need to worship Him, more that we need to accept the sacrifice He has already provided - if we reject the sacrifice, the full penance for all our actions is on us, and we can never be with God.

> Obviously, no human is without sin

Objection: Not obvious in the slightest.

Sarcasm aside, though, it's such a wonderful little rhetorical trick to introduce an otherwise indefensible point with the prefix that it is "Obvious" that to let it go unmentioned would be criminal.

Well, we're gonna be downvoted to hacker hell, but I agree.

"it was good for my dear old daddy / and my dear old mommy too...i don't need nothing new"

If you're down-voted, it's only because you make an invasive requirement of people without explaining yourself.