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Re:Django Girls one year later by joe_the_user on Friday July 31, 2015 @02:43PM (#9983520)
The room is decorated with flowers and balloons, rather than being a "boring classroom" and they do fun things like cupcake tasting or yoga during the day.

I suppose that could attract a certain audience but I think a number of girls could feel a bit uncomfortable being pigeon-holed as liking all things "girly".

When I was in High School I would have been aghast if someone held a "guy's programming workshop" with weight-lifting and sports-talk.

Re:Django Girls one year later by lake99 on Friday July 31, 2015 @02:54PM (#9983591)
I'm in the "whatever works" camp. If someone were to create a "guy's programming workshop" with weight-lifting and sports-talk, I'd welcome the experiment. It's all fine as long as the market demand for programmers is going unmet.
Re:Django Girls one year later by andrewflnr on Friday July 31, 2015 @09:45PM (#9985494)
Experiment if you want, but as a guy, I would "nope" right out of there. I don't think those sort of tricks have a net positive impact on your numbers.
Re:Django Girls one year later by lake99 on Friday July 31, 2015 @10:49PM (#9985682)
> Experiment if you want, but as a guy, I would "nope" right out of there.

As would I. I found the PyCon2015 talk by Ola and Ola rather too cutesy, but I liked the djangogirls' tutorial online just fine. I can imagine there are others who find the online tutorial too dry, and would like some of the cutesy stuff to maintain attention or interest. All we can conclude is that these techniques are not for the likes of you and me.

> I don't think those sort of tricks have a net positive impact on your numbers.

These are all didactic methods. Not everyone learns something best in the same way. As far as I'm concerned, there are still some people whose learning needs are not met by current mainstream methods. Any variation that attracts more people into the field ought to have a net positive outcome.

Consider this too: books for young children have lots of pictures in them, whether they're storybooks or textbooks. I can clearly recall a time when I was 6, and the first thing I'd do with a new science textbook is look at all the pictures. Back then, I found the books for older children rather dull. I grew out of that phase, as did millions of other children. Who is to say that these cutesy addons don't perform an analogous role in the early stages of some programming newbies?

Re:Django Girls one year later by ZenoArrow on Saturday August 01, 2015 @03:43AM (#9986289)
They might not have a net positive on the numbers, but they might have a net positive on being interesting. I don't want a one size fits all monoculture, and if the only cost of that is the risk I might not enjoy every event I go to, then so be it.
Re:Django Girls one year later by thomasruns on Friday July 31, 2015 @06:22PM (#9984865)
If cupcake tasting is girly, then call me girly. And pass me a cupcake please.
Re:Django Girls one year later by ZenoArrow on Friday July 31, 2015 @02:50PM (#9983565)
You're overthinking it. They're doing those things because they're fun things to do. If someone gave a programming workshop and had a games room where you could play arcade games, air hockey, shoot pool and play pinball on your breaks, I certainly wouldn't complain. I'd even like trying yoga and cupcakes!
Re:Django Girls one year later by Udo on Friday July 31, 2015 @02:59PM (#9983622)
I agree that Joe is probably overthinking it, but at the same time, I would be turned off to find myself at a programming event that plays up my "maleness" by stuffing in lots of sports things ;) On the other hand, I find flowers infinitely less annoying than football, so...

One of the deeper issues that will probably never go away for many people in tech (no matter their gender) is the realization that completely fitting in is unlikely to ever happen, and that maybe this is a good thing. To pick up one of the metaphors used in the article: yes, if you're a squirrel, at first glance it may seem that all the other creatures in the forest are completely identical badgers - but upon further investigation it turns out they're all aliens from thousands of different planets, each wearing badly-made badger costumes [which, by the way, is also almost exactly the narrative of the original presentation - just watched it].

Re:Django Girls one year later by ZenoArrow on Friday July 31, 2015 @04:30PM (#9984259)
> "I agree that Joe is probably overthinking it, but at the same time, I would be turned off to find myself at a programming event that plays up my "maleness" by stuffing in lots of sports things ;) On the other hand, I find flowers infinitely less annoying than football, so..."

The issue isn't really the things, but in feigning interest in the things that don't interest you. You don't have to pretend to like something, but at the same time you can still find ways to share time with those that do. You cannot design an event which is all things to all people, the answer to being inclusionary is not to be dull, instead it's about inspiring people, and you might as well have some fun trying to do it.

Re:Django Girls one year later by sliverstorm on Friday July 31, 2015 @08:18PM (#9985269)
... which kind of highlights how gender divides, once established, reinforce themselves. This group of women chose cupcakes and yoga; in the past (mostly) male teams I have been on chose laser tag and go karts.

Do I like cupcakes? Sure. Do women enjoy laser tag? They kick my butt plenty often. But it makes the workplace less accessible to people who don't like cupcakes or laser tag.

Really I wonder if we're just seeing that a workplace naturally has a culture, not everyone always fits in, and because in this case the divide roughly aligns with a protected class we are caught off-guard and concerned.

(Getting rid of culture in workplaces doesn't seem like a solution)

Re:Django Girls one year later by ZenoArrow on Saturday August 01, 2015 @03:18AM (#9986248)
You're making a mountain out of a molehill. Nobody said these things have to be set in stone, the idea is just to try things and see if you enjoy them.

So it was cupcake tasting this week. You don't like cupcakes? That's fine. Next week it's yoga. Don't like yoga? That's fine. The week after that it's etc...

The way you want to paint it is that you have to like certain things to be 'one of us', the real message is that you can be different and still be 'one of us'. As I said before, you can't be all things to all people. The idea is to make things inclusionary by being fun, and I hope they continue, even if people want to make a point of being offended about eating cupcakes at a programming class.

Re:Django Girls one year later by joe_the_user on Friday July 31, 2015 @03:42PM (#9983907)
They're doing those things because they're fun things to do

There are games and activities that don't gender stamped all over them, yes. But cupcakes and yoga are pretty close to the activities which have some gender-attachments.

Re:Django Girls one year later by Isamu on Friday July 31, 2015 @04:06PM (#9984083)
You shall not pry cupcakes from my masculine paws.

Male hackers rise up against those who would steal thy cupcake-loving birthright!

Re:Django Girls one year later by ZenoArrow on Friday July 31, 2015 @04:51PM (#9984404)
I hear you brother!
Re:Django Girls one year later by dominotw on Friday July 31, 2015 @03:15PM (#9983739)
Yoga is awesome. Sounds like a fun place. Hope this becomes some sort of trend at events like these :)
Re:Django Girls one year later by bayesianhorse on Saturday August 01, 2015 @09:31AM (#9986959)
Actually this is already happening. I wanted to motivate some friends of mine to maybe attend a DjangoGirls workshop and they objected to "Girls" and the girliness.

But in general, women can bear "girliness" even if they don't like it, and it feels a lot less threatening than machoism and more attractive than, say trekki-ism.

Re:Django Girls one year later by gohrt on Friday July 31, 2015 @03:13PM (#9983724)
In the industry today, we pigeon-hole as liking all things Star Wars and Star Trekkie. This is expanding the circle.
Re:Django Girls one year later by pekk on Friday July 31, 2015 @03:21PM (#9983788)
I have never been to any kind of conference or workshop that assumed I was into Star Wars or Star Trek and obligated me to participate in activities themed on those lines. The real argument is because they like doing that, not because "the industry" is already doing it with something else like Star Trek.
Re:Django Girls one year later by ender89 on Friday July 31, 2015 @06:08PM (#9984806)
Most programming workshops would be improved with some flowers (whats this "nature" thing again? sounds scary), cupcake tastings, and yoga.