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Re:Coding Horror and blogs.stackoverflow.com experience "100... by brk on Friday December 11, 2009 @03:44PM (#990422)
Yes, but I'm not sure if your comment is targeted at CrystalTech or codinghorror?

You can't outsource liability.

If YOU are not testing YOUR backups. YOU fail.

Re:Coding Horror and blogs.stackoverflow.com experience "100... by jrockway on Friday December 11, 2009 @04:30PM (#990542)
It's a blog. How much time and money is worth spending on this?

(I backup my Slicehost account with their official service. If they die and my backup dies with it, that's fine; I don't have the time or money to do anything better.)

Re:Coding Horror and blogs.stackoverflow.com experience "100... by robryan on Friday December 11, 2009 @04:45PM (#990583)
I'd say a lot to Jeff, not only is it a popular blog standing alone and probably generates a decent income but it's also very important to him for cross promotion.
Re:Coding Horror and blogs.stackoverflow.com experience "100... by bad_user on Friday December 11, 2009 @04:53PM (#990599)
And do you think Jeff's blog just got less popular?
Re:Coding Horror and blogs.stackoverflow.com experience "100... by gaius on Friday December 11, 2009 @05:24PM (#990657)
He's not serving any AdWords off that page :-P
Re:Coding Horror and blogs.stackoverflow.com experience "100... by diN0bot on Friday December 11, 2009 @05:41PM (#990680)
his position as looking down on coding horror has somewhat moved to being part of the team. not necessarily a bad thing.
Re:Coding Horror and blogs.stackoverflow.com experience "100... by samdk on Friday December 11, 2009 @05:32PM (#990668)
You don't need to put much time or money into it. The bare minimum of a weekly cron-automated rsync job can be done in a few minutes, even if you've never done it before.
Re:Coding Horror and blogs.stackoverflow.com experience "100... by PStamatiou on Friday December 11, 2009 @08:48PM (#990985)
If I was in his shoes, yeah I'd be freaking out too and trying to get everything recovered ASAP. Then again my blog pays more than my (startup) job so that's why I care about it.
Re:Coding Horror and blogs.stackoverflow.com experience "100... by Confusion on Friday December 11, 2009 @06:09PM (#990739)
You can't outsource liability.

So you've tested whether your toaster has proper grounding and other safety precautions, in case it shortcircuits? I bet you haven't and that why you should stop repeating that stupid soundbite. We all 'outsource' liability all the time: we pay others to perform services for us and hold them responsible for the proper execution of those services. This includes hosting content and backing up that content.

Re:Coding Horror and blogs.stackoverflow.com experience "100... by brk on Friday December 11, 2009 @06:40PM (#990795)
So you've tested whether your toaster has proper grounding and other safety precautions, in case it shortcircuits?

Nope. I have a fully paid and verified home owners insurance policy though that covers any probable loss from a toaster fire.

It's sort of like having an offsite backup of my important personal stuff.

Your example is really not a parallel to a data backup. It's difficult to fully test all of the toasters failure modes in a non-destructive way. It's easy to setup an automated backup to a remote location. Given the gmail storage limits, you could tar and gzip your files and email your gmail account with the backup data.

A better example in a "homeowner" realm is the flood pans that you can buy to put under your water heater or washing machine. You'd like to be able to trust that the manufacturer made a waterproof device, but at the same time it's cheap and easy to insure yourself against the most common failure modes.

The sound bite is not stupid. People who believe you can outsource all the messyness of keeping a website alive are continually bitten in the ass by EC2, Rackspace, etc. failures.

Re:Coding Horror and blogs.stackoverflow.com experience "100... by sailormoon on Friday December 11, 2009 @09:10PM (#991003)
An insurance policy is equivalent to an offsite backup? So you don't have any personal items of any intrinsic value at all; you could lose it all, get a cheque in return, and be happy? Wow. Well, awesome, but I doubt that is common.

And look, I agree with you in many ways - people need to take responsibility for their own backups, sure. But there is a division of responsibility. I mean, even if all my backups are 100% perfect, I am still trusting the hosting provider to, well, keep the power on. Pay the peering bill. Keep the server temp down. Not go bankrupt tomorrow.

You can just follow this chain as far as you want. Whether you like it or not, you're utterly dependent on the DNS root server admins. There is nothing at all you can do to prepare yourself for their failure. I bet you can't generate your own electricity or grow your own food, either.

All of civilisation is built on co-dependency and delegation of responsibility. It's the only way to do anything complex. At some point, you must delegate. Atwood should have checked - but he was paying his host to do it. That's like having an employee whose job it is to do backups. At some point, you just have to let go and trust them. Otherwise you can never really do anything; you're caught up in checking minutia; I can give examples of this kind of leadership failure until my keyboard breaks.