Re:Jackline: XMPP client in OCaml
by scrollaway on Friday July 10, 2015 @09:51AM
(#9863916)
I can't tell if it's a troll or not. Regardless, it's a wonderful way to get your work/license dismissed as non-free software, as non-professional, and as offensive all at the same time, regardless of the intent. Completely undistributable.
Very sad, considering the software itself seems useful.
Re:Jackline: XMPP client in OCaml
by ectoplasm on Friday July 10, 2015 @10:26AM
(#9864098)
It's actually kind of funny, because unless I'm missing something, my girlfriend is allowed to download the software, relicense it under a license of her choosing or release it into the public domain, and then send the sanitized version on to me. Not only that, but there's no mechanism for someone to prove that this didn't happen if I simply do it myself. I guess that's why you don't try to write a license!
Re:Jackline: XMPP client in OCaml
by g8oz on Friday July 10, 2015 @12:23PM
(#9864891)
You just described the problem with Black Empowerment policies in South Africa and "Bumiputra" policies in Malaysia. They often don't actually empower the majority, instead producing a cohort of well connected crony types who essentially rent out their membership in the disadvantaged class to the "exploiters".
Re:Jackline: XMPP client in OCaml
by bnegreve on Friday July 10, 2015 @11:27AM
(#9864463)
What you could be missing is that the goal of this license is not to protect this not-so-important piece of software but to give you (?) a sense of what institutional discrimination feels like.
As a white heterosexual male, it does make me think.
Re:Jackline: XMPP client in OCaml
by scrollaway on Friday July 10, 2015 @01:13PM
(#9865279)
> As a white heterosexual male, it does make me think.
All it achieved here is made me immediately lose trust in the person who wrote the software and dismiss what they were trying to put forward (which was only mildly related to the license).
Then again, I have that same reaction whenever I see anyone being racist/sexist/xenophobic or what have you, whether it's towards me or someone else. So maybe you're right.
But I don't think humanity has ever solved a problem by doing it to other people. "I'm gonna be sexist to men just to show THEM what it's like!" doesn't just seem dumb, it's also counterproductive.
Re:Jackline: XMPP client in OCaml
by wtbob on Saturday July 11, 2015 @11:23AM
(#9870086)
> … give you (?) a sense of what institutional discrimination feels like.
> As a white heterosexual male, it does make me think.
As a white heterosexual male, I've been the victim of institutional discrimination. In fact, people like me are the only ones it's considered okay to discriminate against.
Re:Jackline: XMPP client in OCaml
by dragonwriter on Friday July 10, 2015 @07:23PM
(#9867610)
> Regardless, it's a wonderful way to get your work/license dismissed as non-free software, as non-professional, and as offensive all at the same time
While since either the terms offered to the preferred class or those offered to the non-preferred class seem to meet the free software definition (the non-preferred class gets pretty much equivalent to BSDL terms, the preferred class gets somewhat more generous terms), it seems to be an offensive, non-professional but Free (permissive, non-copyleft) license.
That, of course, assumes that the contradiction between the last two bullets and the first two is resolved in favor of the last two being controlling. Though, if the first two are controlling where they conflict, its just a clumsy, unprofessional way of producing the effect of a straight 2-clause BSDL, which is also Free.
Re:Jackline: XMPP client in OCaml
by akerl_ on Friday July 10, 2015 @09:50AM
(#9863914)
I thought it was pretty well understood that affirmative action as a method for ensuring equality was approaching the issue from the wrong end?
It's pretty clear that there's disparity of opportunity based on all kinds of social/biological factors, which the rational world can agree is bad. Fixing that by trying to level the end-game is far too late, hence the expansion of work in leveling the early game: getting more people from more backgrounds and situations the ability to find what they enjoy and do what they want without being shat on by prejudice, so that by the late game they have the skills and empowerment that in a society of mostly-well-meaning people they can exist on as level a playing field as society, being imperfect, can sustain.
I'm not sure how licensing code such that specific social/biological groups (regardless of which ones) have more rights is actually contributing to greater equality of opportunity.
Re:Jackline: XMPP client in OCaml
by scrollaway on Friday July 10, 2015 @09:52AM
(#9863923)
> I thought it was pretty well understood that affirmative action as a method for ensuring equality was approaching the issue from the wrong end?
It's very well-understood by everyone except the ones pushing for it. Kinda like how climate change is well-understood by everybody except those who deny it.
Re:Jackline: XMPP client in OCaml
by drcross on Friday July 10, 2015 @09:53AM
(#9863931)
This shit has gone too far. In an act of schadenfreude I'd like if white hetro males went on strike for a week taking out heavy industry, travel and communication to name a few immediate and dire consequences. The multitudes of men are toiling thanklessly, doing the late shift, down the mine pit, driving the 18 wheeler, removing your trash while you sleep, working two jobs, making ends meet to support society and this is how they are treated.
Re:Jackline: XMPP client in OCaml
by hannesm on Friday July 10, 2015 @06:23AM
(#9863135)
[author of jackline here] interesting idea, but since I'm not willing to audit all the other xmpp clients, I won't import any OTR private keys. I'm willing to import trusted fingerprints of contacts, though.
also, imho people should get used to key rollover / revocation / renewals, rather than pretending that you have a life-long key.
Re:Jackline: XMPP client in OCaml
by mike-cardwell on Friday July 10, 2015 @07:50AM
(#9863361)
It's not that I want to keep a key for a long time, it's that I have several different clients and I want to share whatever key I'm currently using across them. That way I only have to stick the fingerprint of one OTR key on my business cards.
edited, added some explanation:
(since there's a time span between handing out your card and verifying the FP, in which your key might have get compromised... and thus the one who received the card cannot verify whether you really got compromised and needed to update your key, or an attacker intercepted with a new key)...
Very sad, considering the software itself seems useful.
As a white heterosexual male, it does make me think.
All it achieved here is made me immediately lose trust in the person who wrote the software and dismiss what they were trying to put forward (which was only mildly related to the license).
Then again, I have that same reaction whenever I see anyone being racist/sexist/xenophobic or what have you, whether it's towards me or someone else. So maybe you're right.
But I don't think humanity has ever solved a problem by doing it to other people. "I'm gonna be sexist to men just to show THEM what it's like!" doesn't just seem dumb, it's also counterproductive.
> As a white heterosexual male, it does make me think.
As a white heterosexual male, I've been the victim of institutional discrimination. In fact, people like me are the only ones it's considered okay to discriminate against.
"This license serves as a form of communal Affirmative Action." - http://nonwhiteheterosexualmalelicense.org/why/
While since either the terms offered to the preferred class or those offered to the non-preferred class seem to meet the free software definition (the non-preferred class gets pretty much equivalent to BSDL terms, the preferred class gets somewhat more generous terms), it seems to be an offensive, non-professional but Free (permissive, non-copyleft) license.
That, of course, assumes that the contradiction between the last two bullets and the first two is resolved in favor of the last two being controlling. Though, if the first two are controlling where they conflict, its just a clumsy, unprofessional way of producing the effect of a straight 2-clause BSDL, which is also Free.
It's pretty clear that there's disparity of opportunity based on all kinds of social/biological factors, which the rational world can agree is bad. Fixing that by trying to level the end-game is far too late, hence the expansion of work in leveling the early game: getting more people from more backgrounds and situations the ability to find what they enjoy and do what they want without being shat on by prejudice, so that by the late game they have the skills and empowerment that in a society of mostly-well-meaning people they can exist on as level a playing field as society, being imperfect, can sustain.
I'm not sure how licensing code such that specific social/biological groups (regardless of which ones) have more rights is actually contributing to greater equality of opportunity.
It's very well-understood by everyone except the ones pushing for it. Kinda like how climate change is well-understood by everybody except those who deny it.
Nobody would dream of make a licence poking at any other demographic like this one does.
But it is pretty distasteful.
Anyway, it doesn't belong in a license. Or anywhere else. Can't we all just get along?
https://guardianproject.info/apps/keysync/
also, imho people should get used to key rollover / revocation / renewals, rather than pretending that you have a life-long key.
edited, added some explanation: (since there's a time span between handing out your card and verifying the FP, in which your key might have get compromised... and thus the one who received the card cannot verify whether you really got compromised and needed to update your key, or an attacker intercepted with a new key)...