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Re:A Dutch city is giving money away to test the basic incom... by rconti on Thursday July 02, 2015 @03:50PM (#9821182)
America will be about the last place to attempt this, if the past (and our current welfare) are any guide.

It's an interesting concept. My immediate reaction is that it creates disincentives to work. In theory it does, but the only data we have is those who are currently on welfare and do not work -- but maybe those people were basically not going to work anyway! We have no competing group of people who are on welfare yet still CHOOSE to work to better their lives, because as soon as someone gets a job, no more benefits! So it's natural that an outsize chunk of people on public assistance don't work -- and the ones who stay on the longest, of course, don't WANT to work. But it undercounts those who go on the system then back out of it as they get work.

Other things that seem "obvious" to result: inflation. If everyone can afford $x for housing, why should housing costs not go up by a similar amount? The same way 2 incomes is now "normal", and the same way giving tax deductions on mortgage interest to make housing "more affordable" means, now that everyone can afford more housing, housing is bid up.

I don't know, but it's a fascinating experiment, anyone who is not paying for it should be in favor of this experiment -- unless you just hate poor people.

Re:A Dutch city is giving money away to test the basic incom... by Cadsby on Thursday July 02, 2015 @05:44PM (#9821895)
> America will be about the last place to attempt this

We came much closer than anyone seems to remember under Nixon in the 70's.

http://www.remappingdebate.org/article/guaranteed-income%E2%...

Re:A Dutch city is giving money away to test the basic incom... by sslayer on Thursday July 02, 2015 @04:08PM (#9821290)
> We have no competing group of people who are on welfare yet still CHOOSE to work to better their lives.

I think we do, every state has a Vocational Rehabilitation program that attempt to do just that. In fact, I became disabled at the age of 22, and could have lived the rest of my life with full disability benefits, But instead chose to use one of these programs. I have since payed back in taxes to the state + more that what I most likely used. http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AboutFDA/WorkingatFDA/UCM277757...

Re:A Dutch city is giving money away to test the basic incom... by CONTRARlAN on Thursday July 02, 2015 @03:55PM (#9821209)
> I don't know, but it's a fascinating experiment, anyone who is not paying for it should be in favor of this experiment -- unless you just hate poor people.

What a bizarre statement. It's really easy to read that as two things:

1. You're totally game to experiment, just so long as it's not your money. 2. Anyone who doesn't agree must hate poor people.

I'm pretty certain you didn't really mean either, but the net result of that sentence is awfully unproductive: "anyone who doesn't like this must either have skin in the game or hate poor people!"

Re:A Dutch city is giving money away to test the basic incom... by rconti on Thursday July 02, 2015 @05:58PM (#9821989)
I don't see the problem with this reading.

1. It's POSSIBLE to be unhappy about this, IF it is your money being used, and you have certain criticisms.

but

2. If it's not your money, I can't see how anyone could possibly have an issue with the experiment.

Which part do you disagree with? I'm not saying that anyone whose money is involved here HAS to be upset about it. I'm just saying, if they have skin in the game, they at least may have REASON to quibble. And if they don't, I don't see what complaint a person could possibly have with research (that, incidentally, benefits people).

Re:A Dutch city is giving money away to test the basic incom... by eplanit on Thursday July 02, 2015 @05:07PM (#9821638)
That's the common tactic of argument these days. The notion of "criticism" has been re-cast as "hate". Hate is more easily dismissed, ridiculed, and trivialized.
Re:A Dutch city is giving money away to test the basic incom... by rconti on Thursday July 02, 2015 @06:04PM (#9822029)
After re-reading your parent's statement a few times, I think (s)he thought I was saying you must dislike it if you're paying for it, but if you're not paying for it, you can't dislike it.

I merely was saying I can't see a valid criticism for those of us who aren't paying for it. There may be some valid criticisms of the idea, but I'd rather see how this goes.

I can't think of a single (valid) reason to oppose basic research on solving poverty, when that research has no negative impact on the person who might be opposing it. Can you? The only one I can think of is "I want to ensure poor people are kept poor."

Re:A Dutch city is giving money away to test the basic incom... by jbuzbee on Thursday July 02, 2015 @05:51PM (#9821943)
"America will be about the last place to attempt this"

In a small sense, the US is already doing it. 60 minutes did a story on an area in Kentucky and West Virginia where they estimated 10-15% of the population, 250 thousand people, are on social security disability. Local lawyers guaranteed, and the Social Security Administration agreed, that they could get anybody classified as "disabled" to get benefits.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/disability-usa/

Re:A Dutch city is giving money away to test the basic incom... by rconti on Thursday July 02, 2015 @06:00PM (#9822007)
Yup, I'm well aware of how the disability system is being used. But we all know increasing social services has been pretty much a toxic idea since at least the early 90s.
Re:A Dutch city is giving money away to test the basic incom... by undersuit on Thursday July 02, 2015 @06:39PM (#9822209)
It's a toxic idea in the media, but it's not toxic enough for the bills and laws to be brought up by politicians in the first place.
Re:A Dutch city is giving money away to test the basic incom... by nothrowaway on Thursday July 02, 2015 @03:59PM (#9821235)
"America will be about the last place to attempt this..."

I'm not sure how relevant this is, but I believe it's related to the topic of basic income, and hopefully it's at least slightly interesting! :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund

(Coincidentally, I only heard about it last weekend, at what you could describe as an "alternative economics" conference.)

Re:A Dutch city is giving money away to test the basic incom... by rconti on Thursday July 02, 2015 @06:03PM (#9822020)
Yeah, the APF was mentioned in the Medium article, and I'm familiar with it as I have family both who live in Alaska, and who have worked in the oil industry. Also, I've been to deadhorse myself, but I'm not sure that qualifies me for anything other than glancing at the pipeline now and again for hours and hours and hours on the Dalton.
Re:A Dutch city is giving money away to test the basic incom... by jliptzin on Thursday July 02, 2015 @09:20PM (#9822840)
I don't think killing motivation would be something to worry about. I can think of lots of examples of people who don't need to work but continue to do so anyway, from my own group of friends as well as Bill Gates, Elon Musk, etc etc.