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Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by rayiner on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @05:53PM (#9815471)
I don't see why his affiliation with Doctors Without Borders carries argument-ending weight here. They do noble work, but their interest is the well-being of people outside the U.S. The best case scenario for them is U.S. companies doing all the expensive R&D, and their patients outside the U.S. getting the resulting drugs for free.

The USTR, in contrast, has the sole responsibility of maximizing the benefit to the U.S. It's in our interest if people outside the U.S. have to pay us a bunch of money to get the drugs we invent.

That is not to say that we shouldn't be giving free drugs to people who need it. But that's a policy decision decidedly outside the scope of the USTR. We have agencies like USAID whose job it is to handle humanitarian aid.

Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by Taniwha on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @06:29PM (#9815697)
I live in New Zealand - we've chosen to have socialised medicine - we buy drugs in bulk, for the whole country - it gives the national drug buying agency lots of market power - it doesn't force drug companies to sell to us under cost - but it does pick and choose hich drugs it buys with its limited budget - if they want our business they have to compete with other companies in front of a knowledgable experienced buyer acting on our behalf.

No one here is getting drugs for free, just at reasonable prices that may not be available in the US

TPP as currently written will neuter this advantage costing us billions that will come out of my taxes

Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by wirelesskarma on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @06:44PM (#9815756)
Same for us in Australia. Both Australia and New Zealand are getting the spiky end of the stick in regards to pharmaceuticals, we have a similar system of socialised medicine.
Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by mcv on Thursday July 02, 2015 @11:49AM (#9819668)
It's probably very similar for most industrialized countries to some extent. In Netherland (which probably has the most expensive health care in Europe), insurance companies negotiate about the prices, which means those companies decide which medicine is and isn't covered, and while they still have a reasonable amount of negotiating power, it's not as much as that of a more centralized approach. Still better than the US approach, but certainly the weakest of the EU.
Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by harryh on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @06:31PM (#9815701)
That sounds like a great reason for New Zealand to not enter the partnership. I don't see why it's a reason for the US to object?
Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by chetanahuja on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @11:20PM (#9816664)
Wel yeah... US govt has very large buying power to so by simple market economics, the US govt gets as good a deal as... oh wait. Shit. They made it illegal for themselves to negotiate. Oops.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/under-the-influence/

Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by pdeuchler on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @06:12PM (#9815597)
Big fan of your comments usually, so it's disappointing to see such a specious argument. Not only is this a false dichotomy (free drugs vs getting paid fairly), it's dramatically removed from reality.

Currently, without the TPP, the large pharmaceutical companies make billions in profit every year even including the rampant "piracy" in countries like India and China.

Or, with the TPP, all of those generics go poof, billions lose legal access to modern drugs, and pharmaceutical companies increase profits by 30, maybe 40 percent?

Of course that slack will get taken up by USAID, like you said, which means that now American tax payers will be on the hook to provide medicine that is now more expensive because our own government made them so.

Doesn't really add up, does it?

Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by rayiner on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @07:10PM (#9815876)
I'm using the limiting cases to illustrate the incentives of the parties, not as a characterization of the actual argument being made. My point is that Doctors without Borders and the USTR serve different constituencies with conflicting interests.

As for getting "paid fairly" I disagree with the general notion that companies that make unimportant things should get paid "what the market will bear" while companies that make important things should get "paid fairly." I think that creates perverse incentives.

Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by saint_fiasco on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @09:53PM (#9816459)
"What the market will bear" is actually pretty low in this case (medicine for the people helped by Doctors without Borders). The whole point of patents is to artificially reduce supply to increase the price.
Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by amirmc on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @06:10PM (#9815585)
Your comment seems to conflate 'our', 'us' and 'we' with the drug companies themselves. There should be more to such negotiations than just whatever is in the (self)interest of US-based drug companies.

That all this seems to be happening behind closed doors doesn't inspire confidence.

Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by AnimalMuppet on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @06:32PM (#9815707)
Within limits, the interests of the drug companies coincide with those who want new and better drugs to treat various illnesses. Those against the drug companies are on the side of those who want lower prices for existing drugs.

I want both, so I want a balance...

Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by crdoconnor on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @09:08PM (#9816341)
>I don't see why his affiliation with Doctors Without Borders carries argument-ending weight here.

Because he has the requisite knowledge to understand it and because he clearly hasn't been bought.

Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by vacri on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @06:23PM (#9815666)
> is U.S. companies doing all the expensive R&D

And they're certainly not struggling despite that; not sure why they need a treaty to 'protect' them.

> It's in our interest if people outside the U.S. have to pay us a bunch of money to get the drugs we invent.

Only if you think dollars are the only important thing. Plenty of people see welfare (including foreigners) as being a worthy thing in its own right.

Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by jonlucc on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @06:37PM (#9815723)
If you think Big Pharma isn't struggling, you haven't payed close enough attention. There is a bit of a crisis in innovation that is commonly blamed on the low-hanging fruit being gone. To cope, almost all of the big US companies have cut their discovery and preclinical teams significantly. In their place companies are paying contract companies to do large chunks of the more monotonous chunks of research or buying assets that are already developed to clinical candidate from academia or small biotechs.
Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by lugg on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @09:29PM (#9816398)
That sounds more like an industry with an unsustainable business model adapting and converting to a sustainable crowdsourced model.

"struggling" isn't the word I would use in this situation.

Things change, oil dries up. Doesn't mean we need to start making redflag laws to protect the old models.

Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by vacri on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @09:38PM (#9816418)
And yet they have enough money to get the influence to get the US government to strongarm other governments through treaties. That's not cheap.

I do hear what you say about the font drying up, but it's also no secret that medication is ridiculously expensive in the US. Big pharma is very wealthy, and very politically powerful, despite the low-hanging fruit being gone. The point I'm trying to make is that they don't need a treaty to protect them.

Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by chetanahuja on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @11:17PM (#9816657)
The USTR, in contrast, has the sole responsibility of maximizing the benefit to the U.S

Correction -- that should read "benefit to the US companies".

Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by chetanahuja on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @11:33PM (#9816704)
"I don't see why his affiliation with Doctors Without Borders carries argument-ending weight here. They do noble work, but their interest is the well-being of people outside the U.S."

That's quite an interesting interpretation of "without borders".