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Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by jacquesm on Friday June 05, 2015 @09:26AM (#9665336)
I stopped giving to 'big charities' twenty years ago and since then have only helped people locally where I can see what happens to the money. That's a real pity because of course on a relative scale those are probably much less in need than the people in Haiti (and Nepal and other areas devastated by natural disasters). But the red cross - once a paragon of virtue - and a number of other big time charities that were very successful at raising capital but extremely poor at spending it well - if at all - except on themselves are directly to blame for this and I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only person that feels that way.

They'll never get another cent out of me until at least one of their large scale disaster responses works out well. If they can't spend a few million in a direct, useful and efficient way then I don't see how they could spend orders of magnitude more.

Governments are similarly inept at spending their money efficiently (well, maybe not quite this inept but there is plenty of incompetence there too), but we can't avoid paying into the tax coffers and where applicable we do get roads, healthcare, education, national defence, a police force and social security in return.

Because of the total lack of end-to-end accountability with organizations like the red cross and others like it there is nothing to stop them from squandering what they rake in. It would be a lot more efficient to mail an envelope with cash to a random address in a disaster area than it is to expect these organizations to make a go of it. They really ought to be ashamed of themselves rather than belligerently defensive such as illustrated in the article.

Security situation indeed, I think he meant 'job security'.

Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by Brakenshire on Friday June 05, 2015 @11:00AM (#9665913)
> Governments are similarly inept at spending their money efficiently ... [big charities] will never get another cent out of me until at least one of their large scale disaster responses works out well...Because of the total lack of end-to-end accountability with organizations like the red cross...

Your post is ideological - sweeping application of game-theory style logic, but without the evidence to suggest that the logic applies to this case.

1) 'Governments are similarly inept at spending their money efficiently' is overly simplified. The most obvious counter-example is that the US and the UK spend the same amount of tax money as a percentage of GDP on healthcare; the former gets limited programs covering a minority of the population, the latter gets a universal health service (albeit obviously with limitations).

2) On what basis do you say that no large scale NGO disaster responses work out well? I would say that is an incredibly difficult conclusion to draw.

Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by taki1 on Friday June 05, 2015 @11:05AM (#9665942)
His post isn't ideological. Yours is.
Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by Brakenshire on Friday June 05, 2015 @11:20AM (#9666035)
I offer one empirical counter-example - with direct reference to easily verifiable evidence (public expenditure on healthcare as a percentage of GDP, and the differences between the levels of coverage of Medicare, Medicaid, and the NHS) - and then one request for proof, and not much else.
Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by badsock on Friday June 05, 2015 @01:27PM (#9666726)
One of jacquesm's central assertions is extremely broad: governments are inept at spending money. No qualifications. Brakenshire's contention is that there is clearly a broad spectrum of efficiencies (and offers an empirical example), which is a call for a more nuanced view of things. I think you may need to revisit your definition of ideological.
Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by jacquesm on Friday June 05, 2015 @06:11PM (#9668524)
> One of jacquesm's central assertions is extremely broad: governments are inept at spending money.

Yep.

> No qualifications.

Indeed. I've seen enough of government projects on all levels (Municipal, Provincial, Country and European) to know this to be factually true and if you would so much as read the freely available news sources you'd probably agree with that unqualified statement.

Government projects that are on-time, within the budget, useful and good value for the money spent are very rare.

> Brakenshire's contention is that there is clearly a broad spectrum of efficiencies (and offers an empirical example), which is a call for a more nuanced view of things.

There is indeed a broad spectrum of efficiencies, though I'd rather re-word that as 'there is a broad spectrum of in-efficiencies', since efficient would indicate something close to the theoretically achievable.

Really, I don't know what your experience is but I've been fairly interested in the machinations of the various governments that I've found myself a subject of over my life-time to date and efficient is just about the last term that I would use to describe any of them, and most of the literature seems to agree with that.

Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by badsock on Friday June 05, 2015 @06:57PM (#9668712)
I have a hard time taking your unqualified assertion seriously if your source is "freely available news sources". If that's the best you've got, you are almost certainly the victim of confirmation bias, at the very least.

There's a reason that published, peer-reviewed studies are important. They're the antidote to people like you who hang around the water-cooler chat of newspapers and figure they've got a handle on extraordinarily large systems such as governance and economies. Turns out these things are nuanced and very complicated, and the fact that you don't recognize that is what makes you an ideologue.

Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by jacquesm on Saturday June 06, 2015 @04:19AM (#9670121)
Think about what an NDA actually usually accomplishes when you work for the government.
Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by badsock on Saturday June 06, 2015 @05:16PM (#9672297)
Looking back, my response was rude. I'm sorry about that.

Yes, you don't have to look hard to find examples of government projects that are plagued by agency problems, incompetence, and grift. However, those exact same things play out in the private sector. They're problems endemic in /any/ large undertaking.

You feel it's worse in the public sector. I feel it's just as bad in the private sector (just that it's reported much, much less). You've worked in both sectors, I've also worked in both. Only way to tell which of us is right is some sort of serious, objective research. My stance is that newspapers and other popular media are just noise, especially since government waste is such a easy go-to narrative (a good example being the "$20,000 hammer").

Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by taki1 on Sunday June 14, 2015 @08:30AM (#9714654)
The difference is we all need to pay for public sector mistakes. We are all forced to pay for them. Poor, rich, doesn't matter. And the amount of money in public sector is much higher almost by definition.

In private sector, let's face it. Someone owns that business. The owner looses money if they are ineffective. Not all of us. Not all taxpayers. That's part of the reason why private business are better at not loosing too much money. Because this is Owner's money. He/she will make sure not too loose too much. Not to waste it. If he/she doesnt, more cost effective competition will take their place.

Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by RobertoG on Friday June 05, 2015 @10:36AM (#9665752)
Maybe is time for them to modernize of close. I think that Internet make possible new models of charities. A donation can be, at the same time, not local and very personalized.

I would like to recommend watsi: https://watsi.org/

You can donate to concrete people and, they give you an accurate report, after the fact, of what happened. I think we need more charities like them. Maybe something with education?

Disclaimer: I'm not related except as a donator.

Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by maxerickson on Friday June 05, 2015 @10:43AM (#9665801)
I wonder what it would take to close down the ARC, it is chartered by the US government as a "Treaty Obligation Organization":

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/36/subtitle-III

Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by jonbishop on Friday June 05, 2015 @04:38PM (#9667977)
I second the Watsi recommendation. The combination of their transparency, their 100% donation distribution, and clearly showing me who gets my money/what they get it for has made me comfortable giving to a non-local charity for the first time in years.
Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by duaneb on Friday June 05, 2015 @11:17AM (#9666003)
I don't think that would scale to disaster relief. You need to organize people on the ground and deal with problems.
Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by TylerE on Friday June 05, 2015 @11:26AM (#9666069)
More importantly you need to organize WELL in advance, before the specific need is known. If you wait until the hurricane actually HITS, you'll be weeks late getting shelter, food, etc, inbound. That stuff needs to be bought and warehoused in advance.
Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by TeMPOraL on Friday June 05, 2015 @11:39AM (#9666146)
Stuff can always be shipped from other parts of the world on the moment's notice if you have enough cash ready, so you don't necessarily need to stockpile it on site before anything happens. But what you can't really buy quickly is trained personnel that can organize relief works on site - this alone justifies having them as a standing organization.
Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by TylerE on Friday June 05, 2015 @11:50AM (#9666187)
I don't think that's really. Lots of speciality goods like survival shelters actually CAN'T be ordered in large quantities on a moments notice. Something like bottle water or MREs, sure. But not so much durable goods.

Most manufacturers these days run super-lean, often not stockpiling inventory at all.

Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by RobertoG on Friday June 05, 2015 @12:45PM (#9666481)
Of course you are right. I was talking in a more general sense that disaster relief.

All kind of charity organizations have problems with accountability.

Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by swombat on Friday June 05, 2015 @10:59AM (#9665908)
There are some large-scale charities which I think do use the money well. For example, I felt no hesitation in donating to Médecins Sans Frontières (Doctors Without Borders) at the beginning of the Ebola outbreak, when they were the only ones with boots on the ground actually helping people.
Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by icc97 on Friday June 05, 2015 @07:57PM (#9668939)
I was always impressed by them too. They used to display the amount of administration costs on the homepage of their website. IIRC it was 10% then and it's under 20% now [1], but it's still a very good figure and they're open about it:

> More than 80 per cent of the money you donate goes directly to our humanitarian activities.

[1]: http://www.msf.org/donate

Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by astrofinch on Friday June 05, 2015 @11:12PM (#9669474)
>It would be a lot more efficient to mail an envelope with cash to a random address in a disaster area than it is to expect these organizations to make a go of it.

Interesting that you mention that. Charity evaluator Givewell has evaluated hundreds of charities based on whether they actually deliver results for your money. One of their top rated organizations is GiveDirectly, which does almost exactly what you describe. Here's their evaluation page for it:

http://www.givewell.org/international/top-charities/give-dir...

Givewell is a bit bearish on disaster giving, by the way. See #6 in this list:

http://blog.givewell.org/2013/11/12/6-tips-on-disaster-relie...

If you're interested in this sort of thing, you might look in to the Effective Altruism movement, which I consider myself a part of:

http://www.effectivealtruism.org/

Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by egonschiele on Friday June 05, 2015 @10:13AM (#9665605)
I appreciate this viewpoint, and maybe you have made charity a priority in your life. I know that if I don't set up some on-going donation, I'm just not going to do it. So I have a monthly donation set up for small, local organizations. For example, I volunteered a few times with the SF Bike Coalition and really liked them, and now they get my money :)
Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by bargl on Friday June 05, 2015 @11:09AM (#9665967)
I have found similar hardships in finding a large group that I can trust. I've found that with Partners in Health, but I also think small amounts to people to build local communities is one of the best ways to make changes.

I think this is a great tool for doing that in places that might need it more then my local community here in the US.

http://www.kiva.org/

Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by SloopJon on Friday June 05, 2015 @12:33PM (#9666413)
I was upset to hear that nearly $30 million of the tsunami relief money ended up subsidizing the Japanese whaling fleet. (Heard that on Whale Wars, so I'm not 100% sure it's true.)
Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by xaqfox on Friday June 05, 2015 @01:59PM (#9666919)
It's not that hard of a connection to make when Extremist Logic is used: Use relief money to clean up water and coastal fishing towns. Whales like to live in water and fishermen like to live in fishing towns. Therefore, relief money subsidized the Japanese whaling fleet.
Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by reagency on Friday June 05, 2015 @11:28PM (#9669512)
$30M is what Percentage?
Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by pvaldes on Monday June 08, 2015 @10:08AM (#9679126)
Not much probably. Practically al fishermen's fleet was wipped and aquaculture where also damaged. Luckily, most yellowtail production was sold in the winter market a few weeks before, so seafarmers have enough money in the bank to start again.

Most whalers were probably offshore when the tsunami striked thus not so damaged. I'll bet that this $30M where for families that lost their relatives or houses, instead to buy better whalers, but i'm just guessing...

Re:In Search of the Red Cross' $500M in Haiti Relief by reagency on Friday June 05, 2015 @11:25PM (#9669505)
And yet you probably don't live anywhere near the people whone need charity the most, so you can't give effectovely locally.

Try givewell.org