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Re:Reddit launches harassment crackdown by untog on Friday May 15, 2015 @10:26AM (#9550781)
Well, that's actually relevant the policies being discussed here. If they were criticising Pao in a reasoned, sensible way, that's a problem. But if, as often happens on Reddit, they flew off the handle and were abusive/inflammatory/etc. then perhaps they deserved it. It's a similar system to how Hacker News operates, AFAIK.
Re:Reddit launches harassment crackdown by washadjeffmad on Friday May 15, 2015 @12:11PM (#9551525)
Permanent, site-wide shadowbans are not intended for use outside of spam/bot countermeasures and are not policy against users, especially for a nasty one off, no matter who against.

That they are happening to users at all is evidence of either an unreported change in internal policy or high level vigilante modding. And as users, there is no way to find out how many are affected by this.

Another issue exists where after a person discovers their shadowban, they request its removal and are denied -- because there was no note left for why they were banned. What if it were placed by a Reddit mod and not a sub mod? How could anyone make a reasonable appeal in that case?

Their opaqueness is why shadowbans are effective, but mods treating user appeals like gag orders with top secret clearances is not in the spirit of their duties. After a user discovers their shadowban, it's no longer effective, so there is no reason not to disclose information to them about it during their appeal.

Opening the appeals process so users can see for themselves why they were banned, reversing appeals against noteless bans without contest, limiting the duration of all bans not made against spam/bots, a system of blind review, and increasing mod accountability would all serve to strengthen users' ability to stay active on the site without compromising the intended function of the shadowban.

Re:Reddit launches harassment crackdown by iopq on Friday May 15, 2015 @10:33AM (#9550844)
Do you know what a shadowban is? It's not just a page that says "you were banned for being abusive"

It's actually an anti-spam measure, because when you post while being shadowbanned you see your posts, but nobody else does. That means you could be posting for a long time and not even know all of your posts are actually invisible.

That's not just telling someone to fuck off the site. That's actually erasing them from the site because they won't even make a new account - they'll keep posting and not even know they're invisible.

Re:Reddit launches harassment crackdown by undersuit on Friday May 15, 2015 @05:02PM (#9553671)
>they'll keep posting and not even know they're invisible.

As what happened on Reddit last week: http://www.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/351buo/tifu_by_posting...

Re:Reddit launches harassment crackdown by untog on Friday May 15, 2015 @10:36AM (#9550875)
I am aware of what it means, yes - though I'm not really sure why the nature of shadowbanning is relevant in whether someone deserves to be banned or not. As you suggest, if someone is outright banned they'll likely just make a new account. Shadowbanning is, if anything, a far more sensible type of ban.

And it's something that - at the risk of repeating myself - Hacker News also does.

Re:Reddit launches harassment crackdown by iopq on Friday May 15, 2015 @12:17PM (#9551576)
I think that's very severe and undeserved. Just criticizing someone in a post shouldn't get you hellbanned. That's for persistent trolls that just won't go away.
Re:Reddit launches harassment crackdown by untog on Friday May 15, 2015 @12:31PM (#9551695)
Just criticizing someone in a post shouldn't get you hellbanned.

But we have no idea if it was "just criticism", or if it was worse.

Re:Reddit launches harassment crackdown by Karunamon on Friday May 15, 2015 @01:26PM (#9552119)
The actual content of the post that appeared to merit the shadowban is as follows:

    Buddy Fletcher, husband of Reddit CEO Ellen Pao, is being described as being the operator of Ponzi scheme

    ~144 million dollars of a pension fund was lost

    Ellen Pao is now accused of frivolous lawsuits to try and stay afloat and some other shit. Seeing as she is a CEO of a large company and has a fraudster for a husband I think it's safe to say we have a textbook ASPD/Sociopath on our hands
https://np.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/35uyil/transp...
Re:Reddit launches harassment crackdown by TheLoneWolfling on Friday May 15, 2015 @07:34PM (#9554314)
Except that shadowbans as done by Reddit are ineffectual.

It's trivial to detect - literally as simple as seeing if the user page exists when logged out (or just not sending the login cookie).

Re:Reddit launches harassment crackdown by mreiland on Friday May 15, 2015 @10:33AM (#9550836)
no it isn't, that's exactly the concern the initiator of this thread of conversation had.

It doesn't matter if it's reasonable or not as long as it isn't ultimately harmful to the person.

If you dox someone or follow them around for a length of time attacking them, you should be banned for it as it creates a hostile environment.

But that is a far cry from telling someone in no uncertain terms that you think their opinion is ridiculous.

Personally, I've been wanting a reddit alternative for a while, but everything out there sucks in some manner (don't get me started on hubski...). I would love for this to push enough people onto the other platforms for the content to be there. I doubt it will, but that doesn't stop me from wishing it would happen.

Re:Reddit launches harassment crackdown by debacle on Friday May 15, 2015 @10:36AM (#9550871)
Try http://voat.co/. It is very small right now, but growing.
Re:Reddit launches harassment crackdown by untog on Friday May 15, 2015 @10:34AM (#9550851)
It doesn't matter if it's reasonable or not as long as it isn't ultimately harmful to the person.

That's your opinion on it. Reddit, it would appear, has a different opinion. As, I believe, would the admins of Hacker News.