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Re:Tesla Energy by giarc on Friday May 01, 2015 @10:18AM (#9471416)
Would you not install the battery in a heated place in your house (garage, basement, furnace room)?
Re:Tesla Energy by edwhitesell on Friday May 01, 2015 @10:53AM (#9471750)
I have the opposite problem: Living in Texas, my garage easily gets above 110F many days during the summer (it would be crazy to pay for A/C in it). But, I'm also not going to put the battery pack(s) "inside" my house (e.g. utility/laundry room).
Re:Tesla Energy by NickM on Friday May 01, 2015 @01:11PM (#9472956)
But, I'm also not going to put the battery pack(s) "inside" my house (e.g. utility/laundry room).

Why not? The whole point to making it wall-mounted is that it won't take up any substantial amount of space. A utility/laundry room seems like exactly the logical place that you would want to put it.

Re:Tesla Energy by edwhitesell on Friday May 01, 2015 @02:42PM (#9473611)
My electrical panel is in the garage. Knowing my existing plans to add solar panels, a generator and transfer switch that's the only place battery pack(s) could go. Except it will be above the max temperature for a good period of time, and even below the minimum other times.

Sure, there could be some trade off where it makes sense to add heat and A/C to my garage (and appropriate insulation) based on the economics. But, that's even more I need to spend.

Re:Tesla Energy by JoeAltmaier on Saturday May 02, 2015 @12:02AM (#9475817)
I live in Iowa. It gets to -20F some days in winter. This thing stops working at -4F. So inside is My only option.
Re:Tesla Energy by hammock on Friday May 01, 2015 @01:43PM (#9473170)
Fire hazard
Re:Tesla Energy by JoeAltmaier on Saturday May 02, 2015 @12:03AM (#9475819)
The big technological thing Tesla batteries have going for them is, short of complete mechanical destruction, they don't catch fire. There's a thermal shutoff on every cell. So not the big issue it might have been.
Re:Tesla Energy by giarc on Friday May 01, 2015 @03:10PM (#9473819)
I doubt many homes would have adequate fire separation between a garage and main home to make a difference between laundry vs garage.
Re:Tesla Energy by edwhitesell on Friday May 01, 2015 @03:37PM (#9473994)
It may not make much of a difference from the overall perspective of damage, but it certainly makes a difference in warning and escape time. Also, the chance of dangerous fumes while trying to escape is lower.
Re:Tesla Energy by giarc on Friday May 01, 2015 @11:50PM (#9475792)
Depends on design. Garage could share a wall with a bedroom and the laundry could be on other side of the house or vice versa. I would say that garage may be the most obvious choice, but not always.
Re:Tesla Energy by danielweber on Friday May 01, 2015 @10:47AM (#9471696)
What if it's in the garage and someone hits it with the car and pierces the cells?

I didn't see "insurance" anywhere on that Tesla page. Ideally my insurance company won't pitch a fit about about me installing this in my house, but will Tesla guarantee that?

Re:Tesla Energy by jws on Friday May 01, 2015 @10:58AM (#9471793)
Does your insurance company allow you to keep one liter of gasoline in your garage? It has the same energy content as the Powerwall, is insanely flammable, is frequently implicated is home fires, and regularly causes human deaths.

(Ok, a burning lithium battery will release more energy than its storage capacity, but I'm not finding a nice reference, Tesla knows all about containing cells to prevent chain reactions, and one liter of gasoline is still enough to burn down your whole house.)

Re:Tesla Energy by danielweber on Friday May 01, 2015 @11:14AM (#9471929)
Gas fumes are very flammable, but the gasoline itself will flow down and out of my garage, and the fire would be very easy to contain with a simple garden hose.

A gas can also will not light on fire just because it gets hit with a car. It would take malicious use of a gas can -- splashing it on a wall and then lighting it on fire -- to match the default configuration of a Powerwall.

Re:Tesla Energy by feld on Friday May 01, 2015 @12:25PM (#9472592)
I don't think you use the same gasoline as the rest of the planet if that's your experience.
Re:Tesla Energy by warfangle on Friday May 01, 2015 @12:12PM (#9472447)
You ever try to put out a gasoline fire with a garden hose?
Re:Tesla Energy by dragontamer on Friday May 01, 2015 @12:39PM (#9472704)
While you are correct, you can at least snuff out a gasoline fire.

Lithium fires do not require oxygen, so your typical Class ABC fire extinguishers won't actually work on it. You need a class D (dry powder) extinguisher, which is very rare and expensive.

Re:Tesla Energy by warfangle on Friday May 01, 2015 @01:02PM (#9472892)
While true for lithium fires, a venting lithium-ion battery is not a typical lithium fire.

According to the MSDS for lithium ion batteries, fires involving them can be extinguished with a typical ABC fire extinguisher.

Lithium batteries (not the rechargeable kind) are the ones that need a class D extinguisher.

Edit:

> CO extinguishers, halon or copious quantities of water or water-based foam can be used to cool down burning Li- ion cells and batteries. Do not use for this purpose sand, dry powder or soda ash, graphite powder or fire blankets.

> Extinguishing media Use water or CO2 on burning Li-ion cells or batteries

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg4/cg432/docs/msds/MSDS_LiIon.pdf

Re:Tesla Energy by dragontamer on Friday May 01, 2015 @02:00PM (#9473313)
Using water on an electric fire sounds like a dumb idea to me. But yeah, the MSDS does seem to say that...
Re:Tesla Energy by warfangle on Friday May 01, 2015 @02:13PM (#9473420)
A venting lithium ion battery isn't usually an electrical fire.
Re:Tesla Energy by dragontamer on Friday May 01, 2015 @03:45PM (#9474034)
And what of all the molten wires that _were_ charging said battery?
Re:Tesla Energy by warfangle on Friday May 01, 2015 @07:26PM (#9475160)
Overcharging a battery isn't the only way to cause it to vent :)

Obviously there should be a physically separate circuit for cutting off power in the event of catastrophe. That's pretty much rule-of-thumb for large li-ion battery banks.

Re:Tesla Energy by viewer5 on Friday May 01, 2015 @12:54PM (#9472813)
> Lithium fires do not require oxygen

I thought fire is by definition a combustion reaction, meaning some kind of material reacting with oxygen. What's fire, then? (I feel like a little kid, having to ask that...)

Re:Tesla Energy by tedunangst on Friday May 01, 2015 @01:55PM (#9473266)
Generally, a fast exothermic reaction. Oxygen may be the most popular oxidant, but not the only one. Lots of stuff burns in pure chlorine gas, for instance.
Re:Tesla Energy by TeMPOraL on Friday May 01, 2015 @03:30PM (#9473951)
Some substances bundle together their oxygen source (think of rocket fuel, or napalm), so they don't need to consume it from air.
Re:Tesla Energy by CamperBob2 on Friday May 01, 2015 @05:22PM (#9474607)
It's possible for something to burn hot enough to split water molecules apart. I don't know if lithium metal qualifies, but that could be what the MSDS is referring to.
Re:Tesla Energy by kbenson on Friday May 01, 2015 @12:55PM (#9472827)
It's common advice not to leave rags that have gasoline on them sitting in your garage because in enough heat the fumes from the evaporating gasoline will combust. Gasoline is very volatile, we've just gotten fairly good at managing it.
Re:Tesla Energy by jws on Friday May 01, 2015 @11:18AM (#9471964)
Or a vapor reaching an open flame. Common source of human immolation.
Re:Tesla Energy by danielweber on Friday May 01, 2015 @02:05PM (#9473357)
Re:Tesla Energy by danielweber on Friday May 01, 2015 @02:05PM (#9473361)
Re:Tesla Energy by CamperBob2 on Friday May 01, 2015 @05:27PM (#9474630)
Moderation is pretty weird in this thread. I got voted down for pointing out that the US power grid is likely to experience problems when entire residential neighborhoods full of Tesla owners try to charge their Model S at once.

I don't think many people around here understand (a) just how efficient gasoline really is at storing energy, and (b) just how much energy is used by a typical passenger car.

Re:Tesla Energy by Spooky23 on Friday May 01, 2015 @11:57AM (#9472302)
Talk to your insurance people. Usually when you have expensive items, you can get a specific rider for it.

For example, a friend had a rack with about $80k of servers in his basement a few years ago. I believe he paid an additional $400 for coverage.