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A comment on Chelsea Manning is tweeting from prison. Parent comment

Re:Chelsea Manning is tweeting from prison by vacri on Monday April 06, 2015 @12:28AM (#9326529)
A 'human right' is a right that every human on the globe should possess. The right to vote in a democracy is not a human right - only citizens of that democracy can vote in it. It's reasonable to say that French citizens have the right to vote in France, but not that the entire globes should, for example.
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Re:Chelsea Manning is tweeting from prison by Frondo on Monday April 06, 2015 @03:06AM (#9326975)
I'm not sure if you're trying to play language games to be obtuse for some reason, but the right to be involved in one's government absolutely is a human right.

To say "the right to vote in a democracy is not a human right" is arguably not false, just going on narrow definitions of "vote" and "democracy," but the right to be involved in one's government? Oh yes.

Just because it is denied so many does not mean it is not still a human right.

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Re:Chelsea Manning is tweeting from prison by vacri on Monday April 06, 2015 @04:08AM (#9327120)
... you're saying that people who aren't citizens of France should be able to vote in French governmental elections? You're opposing "only citizens of that democracy can vote in it"? Why is it a human right for a Russian or a Fijian or an Argentinian to vote in the French elections?

I can't make out what your problem with my comment is.

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Re:Chelsea Manning is tweeting from prison by Frondo on Monday April 06, 2015 @04:14AM (#9327133)
Wait, so you're saying... you don't disagree that all people have a human right to participate in their own government?

That you only don't think all people should have the right to participate in all governments?

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Re:Chelsea Manning is tweeting from prison by vacri on Tuesday April 07, 2015 @12:31AM (#9332026)
Eh? I didn't say not in their own government. I said that people who are not French citizens can't vote in the French elections, and it's not a violation of human rights that they can't. I didn't say that Russians shouldn't be able to vote in Russia.

Stop strawmanning my words.

Edit: to be clearer - being able to get involved in your own government is a human right. Being able to vote in the French elections is a civil right, reserved to French citizens.

All cats are animals, but not all animals are cats.

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Re:Chelsea Manning is tweeting from prison by Frondo on Thursday April 09, 2015 @09:33PM (#9352099)
The thing is, I can't even understand where the claim that "being able to participate in other people's government is a human right" is coming from.

I think we're saying the same thing, but somehow we got our signals mixed up.

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Re:Chelsea Manning is tweeting from prison by hluska on Monday April 06, 2015 @06:26AM (#9327367)
The problem is that you are being needlessly pedantic. Please stop...
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Re:Chelsea Manning is tweeting from prison by vacri on Tuesday April 07, 2015 @12:41AM (#9332047)
Why is it pedantic to be confused by a naysayer who is twisting your words to say something you did not say or mean, and try to reclarify it? If someone accuses you of possibly playing language games to be obtuse, why is trying to clarify the issue considered pedantic?

Edit: it's also a bit weird to accuse someone of pedantry when the topic at hand is the subtlety of difference between terms ("what defines a human right as opposed to other rights").

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