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Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by bjourne on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @05:15AM (#9255529)
It's not only a problem in SF, exploding rents is a problem all over the world. But is "barriers to new construction" the problem? No one ever explains those, just blames politicians. But for a property owning corporation it is obviously a poor idea to invest in new apartments because that would reduce the value of the ones they already got. It's not much different from OPEC not wanting to flood the market with oil.
Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by patio11 on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @05:56AM (#9255639)
No one ever explains those

Examples:

+ Mission Street between 16th and Ceasar Chavez is a rail corridor. There was a proposal to limit this area to 8 story buildings. SF counterproposed and adopted a height limit which was on a per-property basis the lower of either a) what was presently built there or b) what city staff recommended, to preserve the character of the neighborhood. (Source: http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/04/11/san_francisco...)

What is currently built there includes e.g. two- to three-story non-operating pornographic theatres. (Source: I periodically walked past them while doing business in SF.) Reasonable people can disagree on whether one prefers non-operating pornographic theatres or new housing. San Francisco has decided, through their elected representatives, that they affirmatively prefer the theatres.

+ San Francisco has a complex, interlocking system of permits required to approve new construction, which is designed to and has the effect of minimizing it.

SF has built an average of 1,500 new housing units per year, for the last several decades. I pulled that stat from an advocacy organization which quotes it as what is realistically possible given that SF is filled with "strong communities, both those concerned about equity and those with more NIMBY interests, that will not allow the radical deregulation many developers (and the growing ranks of Ayn Rand libertarian techie counterparts) seek"

http://www.sfccho.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Whose-Futur...

The population of SF has increased by almost 100k in ~15 years. (2001 census: 777k, 2013 census: 837k, all signs point to it accelerating) At that point, Ayn Rand libertarian techie propaganda ^H^H^H^H^H^H fourth grade math takes over.

Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by bjourne on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @09:38AM (#9256431)
Well, redeveloping existing areas is of course not as simple as building on unused land. From my limited research using Google Streetview, Mission Street looks like a charming neighborhood with many buildings worth preserving.

What about south of San Francisco? Couldn't you build five story or higher apartment buildings there? Again, using Streetview, it looks like there are many newly built suburbs (or maybe they are just well-kept?) but almost all of them are single homes. Which isn't dense enough to solve the housing shortage. Also quite a number of golf courses and country clubs around. :)

Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by nulltype on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @06:15PM (#9259876)
Well, SF has definitely chosen the "preserve" option. Of course, the result of that (in the face of increasing demand) is ridiculous prices.

Oddly enough south san francisco still seems to be fairly expensive, especially along the decent public transit lines. Assuming you're commuting to the city every day, you are trading say, an extra hour or two a day in commuting time for cheaper rent.

Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by brudgers on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @08:59AM (#9256263)
The proximate constraint on housing in your example is obsolescent uses [porn is free on the internet] that are occupying space in lieu of housing...three story development is dense when there is not significant open space devoted to automobiles. Going taller means higher per square foot construction costs and more automobile storage per square foot of land. Both drive up the cost of placing new dwelling units on the market.

Real estate economics is not fourth grade math.

Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by nulltype on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @06:06PM (#9259833)
I'm not sure that buildings are priced at their construction costs in SF.
Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by brc on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @05:37AM (#9255594)
For a property owning corporation, it might not be the best thing. However, in a free market, there wouldn't be anything they could do about it. Competition is supposed to reduce the profits of any industry over time.

Barriers to new construction is of course the problem. If you had to fill out a lot of paperwork and get government permission to build a tractor, and there was a shortage of tractors, the solution wouldn't be to give farmers more cash to procure a tractor, nor try and control the price of tractors, nor pass laws restricting use of tractors. The solution would be to build more tractors. With enough tractors, it woudotn even matter if the occasional farmer kept one in the barn unused.

I don't know how people develop this blindspot with housing - if the prices are going up too much it is because demand is exceeding supply. Everyone is reluctant to say the lack of supply is an issue, and I don't know why.

Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by seanmcdirmid on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @05:52AM (#9255630)
In an unrestricted free market, someone would just buy up all the property in a constrained space to corner the market. That has definitely happened before in robber baron days.

And honestly, if I wanted to live in a cess pool like Houston, I would move there. Houses are cheap enough (comparatively) but it is a huge icky sprawl.

Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by escherize on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @08:28AM (#9256135)
This buy-up argument is impossible in a free market.

Let's say there are 10 people renting apartments that a monopolist plans to buy out, and each of their properties are 'worth' $1, meaning you could reasonably expect to pay $10 for one property. They also rent out their appartments for $1 each.

What happens when the monopolist starts buying properties? He buys a few, and they notice he's going for a monopoly. They will raise their prices, because they know it will be worth it for the monopolist to pay $20 or even $30 to aquire their properties.

Let's say, through a miracle, the monopolist endures these exponentially growing raised prices, buys 9 of the 10 properties, and raises rates to $3 to cover the losses he's had to put into buying his last couple of properties.

Well, the 10th would be able to rent his land out at nearly the same price as the monopolist, say $2.50. But notice that the 10th property owner didn't have to over-pay for his land, so he will is making way more profits than monopolist, which would price his property out of the range of the monopolist.

Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by seanmcdirmid on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @09:46AM (#9256472)
> Let's say there are 10 people renting apartments that a monopolist plans to buy out

You aren't making sense. The monopolist doesn't buy "10 apartments", they just buy the entire building since those 10 people are "renting." You only have to buy from the person who owns the building; even in an non-free market renters have no ownership rights.

> Well, the 10th would be able to rent his land out at nearly the same price as the monopolist, say $2.50. But notice that the 10th property owner didn't have to over-pay for his land, so he will is making way more profits than monopolist, which would price his property out of the range of the monopolist.

When did the 10th renter become a property owner?

And anyways, the monopolist doesn't corner the market directly; they use inside information to buy cheap, and have excess capital to take advantage of market opportunities. How many old west movies are premised on some rich guy trying to buy up all the land in town because they know the railroad is coming through? Those are actually based on "true stories." The late 1800s was full of that.

Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by icebraining on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @09:55AM (#9256531)
And anyways, the monopolist doesn't corner the market directly; they use inside information to buy cheap, and have excess capital to take advantage of market opportunities. How many old west movies are premised on some rich guy trying to buy up all the land in town because they know the railroad is coming through?

In what way does that apply to SF?

Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by seanmcdirmid on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @09:59AM (#9256561)
Today, tomorrow, or yesterday?

SF is already sold out, so it doesn't apply at all; there is nowhere to build and all the property is spoken for. It might have applied 110 years ago after the great fire, or even in the early 90s after the S&L crisis, but not today.

Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by whybroke on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @11:33AM (#9257222)
> This buy-up argument is impossible in a free market.

On the contrary it is an inevitable risk to any commodity that can be monopolized.

The monopolist can make more from the resource because he will be able to charge more than the current owner. Thus he can offer the current owner more in cash than the owner could ever make renting it. If the owner is a rational actor he will always sell out to the monopolist.

In your analogy, the holdout charges $2.50 rent, the monopolist plans to charge $1000. The monopolists borrows 100 years rent and offers it to the holdout who, being rational, sells. The holdout makes more money, the monopolist makes more money. Only the tenant looses.

It is that way with every commodity that can be cornered. That is why we need to enforce anti-trust laws.

In the event the current owner did not sell, the monopolist could use part if his holdings to eliminate his competitor by selling at a loss. So stretching your analogy, he could use rent from distant apartments to offer discounts on those near his competitors until his competitor goes broke.

Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by icebraining on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @06:23AM (#9255715)
That has definitely happened before in robber baron days.

I'm curious, has it really happened at a city level? Seems to me that it would get prohibitively expensive, since other owners would see the massive demand and push up the prices, but that's really just a supposition.

Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by brc on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @09:06PM (#9260663)
No.

There isn't anyone with enough money.

Just to by a simple suburban street takes millions and millions.

Even someone with the cash resources of Apple could maybe get one or two suburbs of San Francisco before the prices started rising fast and they priced themselves out.

Cornering a market happens periodically in small markets like commodity futures or stocks in a single company - and usually only for a brief period.

You could make the argument that you could 'buy' a government by buying all the available currency. Technically it's true but practically it's not. Who would want to own a monopoly in real estate anyway? People and businesses are sticky, but not stuck. If the rents got out of hand they'd just move.

Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by seanmcdirmid on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @07:52AM (#9255993)
You do it when no when is looking (hence robber baron).

Best to start when the land is cheap, and when you are going to build infrastructure to increase the value of the property. So the railroads with tracks and stations, amusement park operators (Disney World...), or it could be a factory with lots of jobs in a depressed area.

Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by icebraining on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @09:52AM (#9256514)
You said they would "buy up all the property in a constrained space to corner the market". I don't see how your examples apply. What constrained space did Disney World take over? What market did they corner?
Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by waltdisney on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @08:55AM (#9256243)
It worked for Walt Disney in Florida.
Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by brc on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @09:11PM (#9260687)
Not really. Walt Disney bought up a pile of unwanted swamp and made a company town. It doesn't even go close to 'cornering the market'. They just own a big chunk of land.
Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by icebraining on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @09:53AM (#9256522)
What constrained space did they buy? Which market did they corner?
Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by brc on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @09:09PM (#9260674)
No, they wouldn't. They couldn't. Nobody has enough money.

Besides, you can you have a constrained space in a free market?

I'm dissapointed this type of thinking still pops up. The whole point of this article is to discuss increases in supply.

Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by specialist on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @06:44AM (#9255775)
From the executive summary:

"In these areas, community resistance to housing, environmental policies, lack of fiscal incentives for local governments to approve housing, and limited land constrains new housing construction."

In other words: zoning.

I've spoken to both policy wonks and developers. IIRC, a good 70% of our land is zoned residential. Everything else is being redeveloped as fast as possible. The single biggest bottle neck is lack of available land.

Community resistant isn't simply just NIMBY. Methinks there's also self-image. Maybe like an inertia thing. Like the incumbents don't want to become "that kind of city".

Many are super reluctant to upzone residential areas (to permit greater density). And the upzones that do occur, are often via the backdoor, by introducing mass and public transit.

Resistance to redeveloping our South Lake Union area (think Amazon) was huge. A light industrial area with a smattering of hovels. A real dump. The political opposition was impressive. So a former mayor pushed thru a super silly trolley car and got the whole area upzoned. Clever.

Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by OrwellianChild on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @02:56PM (#9258635)
This is interesting - I didn't know much about the political process that led to SLU being able to up-zone... Do you have any more background? How did adding the street-car allow for the stalled up-zone?

For non-Seattleites, this will add context (South Lake Union, circa 2005): http://www.seattle.gov/economicdevelopment/files/south_lake_... http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/nickels-outlines-fu...

Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by davidw on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @08:57AM (#9256253)
> But for a property owning corporation it is obviously a poor idea to invest in new apartments because that would reduce the value of the ones they already got.

That doesn't seem sensible to me. One additional unit of housing will reduce prices by some very small amount, but rake in quite a bit of cash for the company owning it, in the current housing climate in SF. Closer to some kind of sane equilibrium, those numbers might start to balance out, but right now they're pretty far apart.

Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by krrrh on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @08:06AM (#9256059)
Ed Glaeser has done a lot of work looking at the costs of the "right to build". His research is worth looking at, but this 2007 Virginia Postrel article which relies on his data contains a good explanation of how these costs can vary between cities.

http://m.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2007/11/a-tale-of-...

Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by walshemj on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @06:29AM (#9255730)
And in SF I bet most of this market rate construction would be snapped up by overseas buyers from China looking for a save haven should the Chinese economy go really pear-shaped - just like London
Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by chii on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @06:45AM (#9255776)
then their payment would justify more houses being built, until the day they decide that they are overpaying for property, and stop the investment. This means they will sell, and thus, cause a drop in prices (and also cause a feedback loop). The existing residents would "lose value" if they chose not to sell, but new entrants to the market, looking to buy a place to utilize (not invest) will be happy.
Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by walshemj on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @07:28AM (#9255898)
There is a limited amount of land in desirable places - which is the flaw in your argument
Re:A lot more market-rate construction helps low-income rent... by fennecfoxen on Tuesday March 24, 2015 @08:46AM (#9256196)
I live in downtown Brooklyn on the 25th of 54 floors.

Just saying.