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Re:German court orders measles sceptic to pay 100,000 euros by Rockslide on Friday March 13, 2015 @12:07PM (#9197884)
Clickbait headline alert! As the article also states, this dumbf..k offered a bounty of 100k to anyone who could prove that the measles virus actually exists. He refused to pay, a doctor brought it to court, and he won. Still, negating the existence of measles or viruses in general doesn't cost a cent in Germany.
Re:German court orders measles sceptic to pay 100,000 euros by CmonDev on Friday March 13, 2015 @12:28PM (#9198011)
I guess the dream of a scientocratic society proactively punishing ignorance won't materialise. Denying evolution? 10 lashes!
Re:German court orders measles sceptic to pay 100,000 euros by pif on Friday March 13, 2015 @12:39PM (#9198069)
Just a matter of vocabulary: "dismissal of scientific evidence" != "ignorance".
Re:German court orders measles sceptic to pay 100,000 euros by allendoerfer on Friday March 13, 2015 @12:42PM (#9198098)
Evolution is indeed just a theory - the one every scientist sees as the most likely - but still a theory.

Edit (reply-limit): Thanks readerrr and cremno, valid points, will consider it in the future.

What I meant was, there have been theories before the current theory of evolution. For example Lamarck's one, which is long considered false but lately some aspects of it are reintroduced. If we would punish everyone for denying evolution we would be unable to advance it.

And of course this has nothing to do with teaching children biology. Of course children need to be taught evolution there.

Re:German court orders measles sceptic to pay 100,000 euros by readerrr on Friday March 13, 2015 @12:45PM (#9198111)
You are using an incorrect definition of the word. Theory used in science[0] means:

a coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena

and not:

a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact

We have a separate word for the latter: a hypothesis.

[0]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

Re:German court orders measles sceptic to pay 100,000 euros by imescent on Friday March 13, 2015 @12:49PM (#9198143)
Because science isn't about generating indisputable facts. If that's what you're doing, what you're doing isn't science. The epitome of good science is a predictive and well-supported theory like evolution.

Adding the word "just" implies a misunderstanding of how the scientific method works, because it doesn't get any better than a good theory.

Re:German court orders measles sceptic to pay 100,000 euros by Luc on Friday March 13, 2015 @12:49PM (#9198140)
I feel kind of bad mentioning it since everyone's bound to pile on, but evolution is a readily observed fact (e.g. breeding of dogs), while it's natural selection that's the theory...
Re:German court orders measles sceptic to pay 100,000 euros by cremno on Friday March 13, 2015 @12:47PM (#9198127)
Re:German court orders measles sceptic to pay 100,000 euros by NoMoreNicksLeft on Friday March 13, 2015 @12:40PM (#9198083)
The English word you're looking for is probably "denying".

> Still, negating the existence of measles or viruses in general doesn't cost a cent in Germany.

It shouldn't. Truth can't be found by forcing others to believe in your version of it. The acceptance of any given fact will naturally follow a normal distribution, and those on one side or the other of that curve aren't defective. They're actually necessary for intelligent and critical discourse.

Even this fool provided an opportunity for the public to learn how wrong he was.

Re:German court orders measles sceptic to pay 100,000 euros by DaFranker on Friday March 13, 2015 @01:11PM (#9198282)
>It shouldn't. Truth can't be found by forcing others to believe in your version of it. The acceptance of any given fact will naturally follow a normal distribution, and those on one side or the other of that curve aren't defective. They're actually necessary for intelligent and critical discourse.

I'm rather partial to imposing a tax on self-delusion and refusing to update beliefs in face of overwhelming evidence.

Also, the normal distribution part is plainly unjustified. The scientific consensus on various climate change topics is widely accepted to a high confidence by many, and widely denied with even higher confidence by many others. Bayesian belief networks are better models for individuals, and if we were to put belief in a given generic climate-change-related claim on a curve with 1:1 confidence in the middle and "certain true/false" at the extremes, you'd have a valley, not a normal. An asymmetrical valley, to boot.

Re:German court orders measles sceptic to pay 100,000 euros by NoMoreNicksLeft on Friday March 13, 2015 @02:38PM (#9199010)
> Also, the normal distribution part is plainly unjustified. The scientific consensus

That's a dumb thing to say.

"Scientific consensus"? Really?

I suppose the first time a person chants "scientific consensus" everyone down to the last person is supposed to instantaneously change their minds and accept it, right?

The truth of the matter is that some people are slower to accept such truths than others. This doesn't mean that they're unwilling to accept them forever, but maybe it takes them a few weeks/months/years to arrive at the same conclusion as the rest. There's no reason to punish them or "tax" them for this.

Even if you could somehow determine that they never will accept it (rather than just being slow), those people are still necessary to keep the consensus honest. Without them, there won't be any criticism left, and then it just becomes a game for jackasses to try to get people to chant "scientific consensus" enough that everyone else must accept it instantly or be punished for not doing so.

What you're talking about isn't "consensus" at all, it's groupthink.

And it's pretty fucking sad that you've confused one for the other.

Re:German court orders measles sceptic to pay 100,000 euros by Rockslide on Friday March 13, 2015 @04:10PM (#9199689)
> The English word you're looking for is probably "denying".

Thanks for the hint. Unfortunately, I no longer can edit my comment...

> It shouldn't.

I didn't mean to judge. But for my liking, the BBC headline suggests that this would be the case in Germany, while the reality is very far from that.