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Re:This bakery will hire anyone by MichaelGG on Saturday March 07, 2015 @08:00PM (#9163926)
Taking "drug convictions" into account is a form of discrimination. If the FDA revoked the licensing of Prozac or the DEA scheduled it tomorrow, suddenly tons of people would be guilty of drug-crimes. It'd criminalize being depressed.

The same is true for the current state of drug laws. We're criminalizing people with anxiety, with existential pain, stress, curiosity, etc.

What's different about stealing cars for money for medications, versus stealing cars for money for bread? Or robbing to afford rent? Are people that steal money for opiates less likely to cause a work incident than people that steal money to fund a kickstarter campaign?

Medical issues should only be taken into account if they're relevant to the job at hand, which, at a tech company, is relatively rare. Otherwise, acceptable job performance should be the only measurement considered as far as medical is concerned.

Re:This bakery will hire anyone by dredmorbius on Sunday March 08, 2015 @12:55AM (#9164739)
Discrimination in job applications is perfectly legal outside specifically protected classes in the United States, including under various state laws.

The nationally protected classes are race, sex, pregnancy, religion, national origin, age, veterans status / military service, bankruptcy or bad debts, genetic information, and citizenship status (exclusive of work eligibility).

Under various state laws, there may or may not be additional protections for sexual orientation, gender identity, marital status, medical condition, political affiliation or activities, military status, different age limits, familial status, public assistance status, and/or use of "lawful products" (e.g., tobacco, alcohol).

http://www.eeoc.gov/facts/qanda.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_discrimination_law_...

Outside of these classes (or within them where the state doesn't recognize the class) it's generally legal to make hire/fire decisions with few limitations.

Given "at will" employment conditions in many states, proving discrimination is generally a case of showing specific evidence that a protected class was material and specifically related to the action. That can be difficult, though not impossible.

Re:This bakery will hire anyone by MichaelGG on Monday March 09, 2015 @01:24AM (#9169285)
Many drug convictions, outside of pure merchants (non-patients) are medical conditions and thus should be protected from discrimination.
Re:This bakery will hire anyone by VLM on Sunday March 08, 2015 @08:35AM (#9165382)
One way to think about interviewers ignoring current immoral and unethical laws would be to step back and consider past immoral and unethical laws.

Going back a couple decades, being gay or holding the wrong political beliefs was something of a hiring problem.

Given that "we" forget that technology and fads might change, but people never do, you can safely assume that if being "outed" a couple decades ago eliminated about 95% of employment opportunities, then the equivalent today will eliminate a similar percentage.

Re:This bakery will hire anyone by ars on Saturday March 07, 2015 @08:14PM (#9163982)
> What's different about stealing cars for money for medications, versus stealing cars for money for bread

They are totally different!

Someone stealing for bread, i.e. to survive, will never consider crime if they don't absolutely have to. So they may have committed a crime, but they are not a criminal.

But someone stealing for drugs demonstrate a level of selfishness that does make them a criminal, i.e. someone who does not care about other people. This is something will not change even if they have enough money to buy their drugs. That selfishness does not go away.

Re:This bakery will hire anyone by xj9 on Sunday March 08, 2015 @03:41AM (#9164943)
But someone stealing for drugs demonstrate a level of selfishness that does make them a criminal

Perhaps you'd like to become acquainted with addiction[1] and substance dependence[2]. They are real issues that people (those who you call criminally selfish) have to deal with, (generally) alone.

Due to societal attitudes towards drug use and the overly harsh treatment of users by the criminal justice system, people suffering from addiction often do not receive the medical and psychological attention they need. In a better world we'd be willing/able to provide that, but we aren't there yet.

People start doing drugs for many different reasons, but some people can't handle their crack. An addict can be a threat to themselves and/or others, not because they are "bad" or "selfish", but because they are mentally ill. Addicts need rehab, not punishment.

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction [2]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance_dependence

Re:This bakery will hire anyone by ars on Sunday March 08, 2015 @01:30PM (#9166297)
They were selfish to start using the drug. The dangers of drugs are known to all, they can not claim ignorance.

On top of that addiction is no excuse to harm others by stealing or other activity. It might feel absolutely horrible not to have the drug, but it is not necessary in order to live.

Someone who is so consumed by their addiction that they have no self control left, and they steal, is someone who is not employable.

This doesn't mean they should be ignored - it's two different things. People should certainly help them, but at the same time they do not make good employees.

Re:This bakery will hire anyone by xj9 on Monday March 09, 2015 @02:41AM (#9169538)
They were selfish to start using the drug. The dangers of drugs are known to all, they can not claim ignorance.

Drug use includes a risk of addiction, not a guarantee. Just like a lot of activities, there is a choice to be made considering the risks involved. For some people, the level of risk is acceptable. Unfortunately, brain chemistry is very complex and users rarely take the time to understand what they are doing to themselves. The result is often an unexpected rollercoaster of self-destruction.

they do not make good employees.

On that point I agree. I'd be willing to look the other way at drug-related charges for a fully recovered junkie, but someone who is in the middle of the recovery process (or possibly hasn't started) would be a no-go.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we need to stop demonizing drug users. Addiction isn't an excuse for criminal behavior, but it shouldn't be a crime or carry so much social stigma.

Re:This bakery will hire anyone by MichaelGG on Saturday March 07, 2015 @11:23PM (#9164523)
What if it's necessary drugs, like anti-psychotics? What if they have a physical dependency? What if it's life critical, like a benzodiazepine addiction?
Re:This bakery will hire anyone by ars on Sunday March 08, 2015 @01:17AM (#9164771)
> necessary drugs

I would consider it like bread.

> a physical dependency

Was it their fault in the first place? i.e. did they start using it for a good reason and are now dependent? Or did they start using it because they like how it feels?

> What if it's life critical

Like bread.

You are being a bit too simplistic - the specific details don't matter, what matters is the person's state of mind. Is he stealing because he does not care about the other person, and only about his own enjoyment? Or is he stealing because he has truly no other choice and he feels bad about it?

It's impossible to really know someone else's mind, all you can do is judge based on behavior.