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Re:This bakery will hire anyone by Stratoscope on Saturday March 07, 2015 @03:41PM (#9163042)
Thank you both for the courage to post this, and for the link to Johann Hari's article. It is a real eye-opener. (If anyone is tempted to skip it because of the HuffPo link, take my word for it, this is well worth reading.)
Re:This bakery will hire anyone by gadders on Saturday March 07, 2015 @03:54PM (#9163089)
Don't skip it because it's HuffPo, skip it because it's Johann Hari. He's a plagiarist and a cyber stalker.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Hari

Re:This bakery will hire anyone by cubano on Saturday March 07, 2015 @04:37PM (#9163217)
Wow, can the meta-irony of this particular point be any deeper?

Good thing there will always be a job waiting for him at the bakery.

"Following the release of his book, Chasing the Scream, in 2015, Hari gave a number of interviews where he expressed regret for his actions. In order to quell doubts about his reporting, he also released full audio copies of sources he interviewed for his book. In an interview with the Little Atoms podcast, Hari also stated that he would apologise to Nick Cohen and Francis Wheen."[1]

I think the article is exceptionally well-written, personal, and informative, and gave me, as someone intimately involved with all things addiction for 30 years, fresh perspective.

The fact that he seems to be currently deeply in love with an active addict may be motivation behind the piece, but it takes little away from the insights.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Hari

[edits]

Re:This bakery will hire anyone by mseebach on Sunday March 08, 2015 @07:40AM (#9165288)
Things are significantly more complicated with Hari than "mistake, apology, done". This article recaps the problems and even documents severe problems in his post-apology work.

http://www.jeremy-duns.com/blog/2014/9/7/kdgwxcbsned1rknh0h3...

Re:This bakery will hire anyone by ptaipale on Sunday March 08, 2015 @05:36AM (#9165134)
I'm fine with hiring people who have erred before, if the regret looks real. People make mistakes. They should be able to take a new direction.

But Hari did dishonest reporting for a long time and, as David Allen Green writes, was "smearing other journalists in an on-going systemic manner for years". I will remain suspicious of whatever he does as a reporter.

In a way: his crime was an abuse of words, and I'll be careful whenever he again works with words. If his crime had been abuse of children, I wouldn't mind him working in construction, or even keeping books, but I'd be careful hiring him as schoolteacher.

If he got a job at a bakery, well, I suppose he wouldn't poison anyone, although his work as a reporter was poison.

Re:This bakery will hire anyone by Stratoscope on Saturday March 07, 2015 @11:31PM (#9164541)
While we're talking about people who did bad things in the past and got a second chance... How about John Carmack?

> As reported in David Kushner's Masters of Doom, when Carmack was 14, he broke into a school to help a group of kids steal Apple II computers. To gain entry to the building, Carmack concocted a sticky substance of Thermite mixed with Vaseline that melted through the windows. However, an overweight accomplice struggled to get through the hole, and opened the window, setting off a silent alarm and alerting police. John was arrested, and sent for psychiatric evaluation (the report mentions 'no empathy for other human beings' and describes Carmack as 'a brain on legs'). Carmack was then sentenced to a year in a juvenile home.

Carmack's comments (from 1999):

> I knew I wanted to work with computers from a very early age, but there were also a lot of other stereotypical geek aspects to my life growing up - phreaking, hacking (nobody called it "cracking" back then), rockets, bombs, and thermite (sometimes in not-so-smart combinations), sci-fi, comic books, D&D, arcades, etc.

> I was sort of an amoral little jerk when I was young. I was arrogant about being smarter than other people, but unhappy that I wasn't able to spend all my time doing what I wanted. I spent a year in a juvenile home for a first offence after an evaluation by a psychologist went very badly.

> I went to a couple semesters of classes at the University of Missouri (UMKC), taking nothing but CS classes, but it just didn't seem all that worthwhile. In hindsight, I could have gotten more out of it than I did, but I hadn't acquired a really good attitude towards learning from all possible sources yet.

> I dropped-out of college to start programming full time, but trying to do contract programming for the Apple II/IIGS post 1990 was not a good way to make money, and I only wound up with between $1k and $2k a month. Not having enough money is stressful, and I did some things I didn't want to. I wrote a numerology program for a couple hundred bucks one time...

> Softdisk publishing finally convinced me to come down to Shreveport for an interview. I had been doing contract work for Jay Wilbur and Tom Hall, so I knew there were some pretty cool people there, but meeting John Romero and Lane Roath was what convinced me to take the job. Finally meeting a couple sharp programmers that did impressive things and had more experience than I did was great.

> After I took the job at Softdisk, I was happy. I was programming, or reading about programming, or talking about programming, almost every waking hour. It turned out that a $27k salary was enough that I could buy all the books and pizza that I wanted, and I had nice enough computers at work that I didn't feel the need to own more myself (4mb 386-20!).

> I learned a huge amount in a short period of time, and that was probably a turning point for my personality. I could still clearly remember my state of mind when I viewed other people as being ignorant about various things, but after basically doubling my programming skills in the space of six months, I realized how relative it all was. That has been reinforced several additional times over the seven years since then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Carmack

http://games.slashdot.org/story/99/10/15/1012230/john-carmac...

Re:This bakery will hire anyone by mseebach on Sunday March 08, 2015 @08:10AM (#9165337)
Journalism and computer programming are fundamentally different pursuits. Computer programming is a perfectly objective activity, the output is totally independent of the work that went into it. Thus, Carmack's work is brilliant, and would remains brilliant despite Carmack being a repentant theif. ReiserFS is still a good filesystem and is still included in the Linux kernel, despite it's author being a convicted murderer.

But journalism is different: the activity is subjective and we are required to trust that the journalist (and their editor and publisher etc) isn't out to mislead us (or, more realistically, that we understand their biases and can compensate for them). Thus, the output is much closer linked to the work that went into it. The journalist was in the room, we weren't. We have to trust that the journalist not only accurately quotes what's being said, but accurately represents the context of it. That means that the personal integrity of the journalist is much more important.

Plenty of lapses of journalists can be trivially forgiven - youthful theft easily among them. But Hari didn't steal a computer as a kid, he messed with one of the most sacred institutions of journalism: the quote. Even worse, he claimed ignorance: forgiving a journalist who so fundamentally misunderstands his own role as a high-integrity purveyor of truth that he thinks it's cool to mess with quotes is a lot more difficult than forgiving theft (not that it's up to any of us to forgive Carmack, we weren't party to his crime).

Re:This bakery will hire anyone by Stratoscope on Saturday March 07, 2015 @04:13PM (#9163150)
Yikes, I didn't know that, thanks for pointing it out.

Still, I think it would be a mistake to skip the article because of who wrote it. As I said, it was a real eye-opener for me, and I'm glad I read it.

I'm even glad I bought Hari's book Chasing the Scream. (I didn't even do my usual Kindle free sample, just a one-click purchase on the spot after reading the article, quite unusual for me!)

You did have me worried for a moment, though: do I want to support someone like that?

But he seems to recognize how he screwed up and is trying to make things right, apologizing to the people he mistreated, releasing the audio interviews used in the book, etc.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jan/02/johann-hari-int...

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/01/26/interview-johann-hari-o...

I too have done some things in the past that I'm ashamed of, and I'm grateful that the people involved forgave me.

Perhaps Hari is a bit like the other people in this discussion and deserves a second chance?

Re:This bakery will hire anyone by mseebach on Sunday March 08, 2015 @07:51AM (#9165297)
Maybe he deserves a second chance, but he doesn't seem to have changed his ways much.

http://www.jeremy-duns.com/blog/2014/9/7/kdgwxcbsned1rknh0h3...

The last section, "Update", is of particular interest to you, as it relates directly to the audio transcripts from Chasing the Scream.

Re:This bakery will hire anyone by DanBC on Saturday March 07, 2015 @04:31PM (#9163190)
Weird to see a positive article about the benefits of letting people who have served their time get back into work juxtaposed with your post saying, essentially, Burn him he's a plagiarist.
Re:This bakery will hire anyone by hueving on Saturday March 07, 2015 @10:44PM (#9164420)
They are two different things. One is directly related to the job. The other is being a felon for an unrelated reason.

I wouldn't mind someone being a teacher if they got caught with pot 20 years ago. I would mind if they raped a few kids.

The point is that if their crime was related to the job, it's fine not to trust someone to do that same job again. That's not the same as never employing them for anything.

Re:This bakery will hire anyone by Natsu on Saturday March 07, 2015 @09:42PM (#9164249)
If you read that, it wasn't just plagiarism, he actually made up stories, whole cloth.

That said, I've worked for a factory. Many of the hires on the floor were for people with records of various kinds. It did help the higher-functioning people turn their lives around, which was quite encouraging. But we also had people who did stupid things and got arrested for things like domestic violence charges, which were related to their drug use.

Re:This bakery will hire anyone by sgift on Saturday March 07, 2015 @04:20PM (#9163163)
Do you have any hints that he plagiarised this article or do you follow the principle of "misbehave once, be damned forever"?
Re:This bakery will hire anyone by seivan on Saturday March 07, 2015 @08:44PM (#9164076)
The irony of you letting a man hang to dry in a post about atonement.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jan/02/johann-hari-int...

C'mon dude.

Re:This bakery will hire anyone by Dylan16807 on Saturday March 07, 2015 @07:17PM (#9163778)
What cyber stalking are you talking about? This page only talks about plagiarism and wikipedia vandalism. Making negative edits about people you don't like on wikipedia involves exactly zero stalking. Is information missing here?

And it sounds like the 'plagiarism' was him using quotes he did not personally acquire, which is pretty minor and wouldn't turn me away from reading anything.

Re:This bakery will hire anyone by emiliobumachar on Saturday March 07, 2015 @08:06PM (#9163946)
Hypothetically, imagine gadders would now edit some public information about you with lies, because you criticized him. Would that not feel a little bit stalky?
Re:This bakery will hire anyone by Dylan16807 on Saturday March 07, 2015 @09:11PM (#9164167)
So let's say we got in a big argument and then he went to my github profile and called me a poopy head and a bad coder. I would find that obnoxious, I would find it harassment if he kept doing it, I don't think I would find that stalky.
Re:This bakery will hire anyone by namenotrequired on Saturday March 07, 2015 @04:16PM (#9163156)
So why should we skip it? Does it make the article invalid?

If he's a liar, I might think differently, but the mistakes you mention seem irrelevant to me.

Re:This bakery will hire anyone by arsenide on Saturday March 07, 2015 @07:10PM (#9163750)
Why are you judging the merits of an article by the author and not the content?
Re:This bakery will hire anyone by ars on Saturday March 07, 2015 @08:12PM (#9163966)
Because if the subject matter is in a domain that is outside someone's expertise they don't really have a way to judge by the content. It's possible to make really good arguments for things that are simply untrue.

So instead we judge by the author - i.e. is the writer at least trustworthy.

Re:This bakery will hire anyone by arsenide on Saturday March 07, 2015 @11:03PM (#9164476)
I will certainly agree: there should be more skepticism for such at article by a known untrustworthy author. Does that mean we should immediately dismiss something written by him?

Your advice is good to take in general: don't trust what you read without judging both the credentials of the writer and the content the writer is putting forth. But to dismiss it based only on the author is shortsighted. I see nothing in your reply specifically about the content of the article, does anything else truly matter? Sure, take the author's history and intentions into consideration, but at the end of the day the content is what matters.

Re:This bakery will hire anyone by pcthrowaway on Saturday March 07, 2015 @05:18PM (#9163311)
yeah, let's not read the article on barriers to employment because of past offenses written by someone who is presumably trying to make it as a writer with a record of criminal offenses.