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Re:Soylent’s Next Chapter by jasonisalive on Wednesday January 14, 2015 @10:49AM (#8886951)
I've been reading HN's overwhelmingly negative treatment of Soylent (as the concept) with some amusement.

It's interesting. HN is supposed to represent some of the world's most dynamic, forward-thinkers. However almost every truly disruptive development is greeted with small-minded negative thinking and parochialism. Bitcoin is scam money for paranoiacs who don't trust banks. Inflation is good for economies. The rich are too rich. We need more and higher taxes and more socialist redistribution of wealth. Soylent tastes bad and destroys traditional food cultures. Uber is too powerful and going to become a monopoly. Google is evil. Without the protection of friendly governments capitalism will exploit the poor. People are too stupid to protect themselves from predatory opportunists (and the government is somehow a perfect vessel to counteract them.) Everything is scary and the way things should be is how a small group of white men who are very good friends with the US government tell us how it should be, which happens to be very similar to today but with more friendly government intervention to fix everything white male programmers are scared of and don't understand.

I guess it'll be entertaining to watch people changing their tune over the coming decades.

Re:Soylent’s Next Chapter by TheCapn on Wednesday January 14, 2015 @11:02AM (#8887060)
You're using this as a platform to address other issues than what I think the OP is hinting at.

Soylent isn't "new". It isn't "disrupting" anything. Meal replacement alternatives have existed for decades and there are numerous brands out there that have a medical proven trackrecord that can be obtained for cheaper than the Soylent we're seeing pushed today.

What we have here is a case of "forward thinkers" believing that some crackpot idea from the startup culture is suddenly revolutionary because they marketed it best to this subculture of life. You're a sucker to believing Soylent offers anything revolutionary yet paying above market to have them feed you that lie.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/tLIC_oIeeORWgna6kbpW1...

Re:Soylent’s Next Chapter by aianus on Wednesday January 14, 2015 @11:18AM (#8887179)
I don't know where you're getting these prices from. In Toronto Boost and Ensure cost CAD$11 for 2000 calories (in bulk at Costco!) while Soylent costs CAD$10.75.

The Soylent has more protein, a more balanced nutritional profile, less wasteful (and annoying) packaging, and is lactose free too.

Edit: and the Ensure has 0 fiber!

Re:Soylent’s Next Chapter by Decade on Wednesday January 14, 2015 @12:38PM (#8887731)
Snowden didn't disrupt anything. We have always known that the NSA spies on electronic communications and interferes with encryption standards.

A lot of the time, it's not the specific artifact that is disruptive, but it's the vision behind it. The iPhone is Unix on a phone. Qt had that years before Apple. Apple actually shipped, and added freedom from the carriers' horrible user experience.

Ensure and Shakeology and Slimfast and Garden of Life have been around forever, but Rob is interested in Soylent being a complete replacement for your normal, everyday nutrition. He's not just resting on his laurels, having an obviously desirable product, but he's continuing to work on improving it, and he inspired a community to join him. Soylent is not big enough to disrupt the food industry yet, but if he succeeds, then it will.

Re:Soylent’s Next Chapter by jasonisalive on Wednesday January 14, 2015 @11:06AM (#8887084)
Hey, pretty good! Let me have a go. Ahem:

The iPhone isn't "new". It isn't "disrupting" anything. Smartphones have existed for years and there are numerous brands out there that have a commercial proven trackrecord that can be obtained for cheaper than the iPhone we're seeing pushed today.

What we have here is a case of "forward thinkers" believing that some crackpot idea from Apple is suddenly revolutionary because they marketed it best to this subculture of life. You're a sucker to believing iPhone offers anything revolutionary yet paying above market to have them feed you that lie.

How did I do?

Re:Soylent’s Next Chapter by jschwartzi on Wednesday January 14, 2015 @11:19AM (#8887184)
Smartphones did exist for years before the iPhone. Take a look at Windows Mobile sometime.

The main problems with them were that the screens sucked.

Re:Soylent’s Next Chapter by Decade on Wednesday January 14, 2015 @12:48PM (#8887793)
The whole system sucked. Those things has little memory or CPU. Windows Mobile didn't have memory protections or preemptive multitasking. Pocket Internet Explorer sucked even worse than Internet Explorer 6. It was challenging to find apps for them.

But the real disruption was the disruption in the carrier relationship. A lot of smartphones didn't have WiFi, and the carriers would nickel and dime you for every kilobyte. Apple convinced them to do the flat rates and big chunks of data. Apple introduced manufacturer control of the user experience, instead of Verizon disabling every feature that would allow you to avoid the carrier's fees. When the iPhone was announced, the feature I was most impressed by was the visual voicemail. Voicemail was so tedious and inefficient before iPhone.

Re:Soylent’s Next Chapter by jasonisalive on Wednesday January 14, 2015 @11:32AM (#8887255)
(That was the point)
Re:Soylent’s Next Chapter by res0nat0r on Wednesday January 14, 2015 @11:19AM (#8887180)
Great, except this is More like it could be one of those knock off iPhones from China that electrocutes you since they are "disrupting" the field by not having anyone who's qualified in food nutrition working on their product day to day?
Re:Soylent’s Next Chapter by philwelch on Wednesday January 14, 2015 @11:02AM (#8887061)
Soylent isn't "disruptive innovation", it's Ensure for hipsters.
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Re:Soylent’s Next Chapter by 0xDOOD on Wednesday January 14, 2015 @11:31AM (#8887251)
Now please demonstrate how Soylent is as great a leap forward from existing nutritional shakes as you infer Google was from Altavista.

Ridiculing an argument is not the same as countering it.

Re:Soylent’s Next Chapter by jasonisalive on Wednesday January 14, 2015 @11:39AM (#8887300)
I already did: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8887167

What if Ensure had a cool name and didn't carry connotations of age and disease? What if it was sexily marketed? What if it was easy to flavour and make delicious? What if you signed up for a subscription and never thought about it again? What if you got it from vending machines that were everywhere you went and recognised you as you approached, having a glass perfectly formulated to your tastes and needs at that precise moment ready? What if it came out of a tap? What if your home 3D printer could form it into a multitude of shapes and textures (bar, cookie, cereal) and it would still be nutritionally balanced? What if it was surrounded by a devoted and inventive community of DIY hackers? What if the creator of Ensure was rapidly iterating it and discussing engineering microbes to produce pure versions of it?

Oh, or is it easier, instead of using your imagination and a bit of enthusiasm, to point to how it's similar to a crappy product that nobody bothered to market, and imply that it won't be sucessful - because we all know the success and impact of a product has nothing to do with the creativity, perserverance and vision of the creators, right?

Re:Soylent’s Next Chapter by philwelch on Wednesday January 14, 2015 @11:45AM (#8887345)
I can go to the drugstore and get a day's nutrition worth of Ensure right now. How long is the waiting list for Soylent? Because it turns out that actually having product available is like, step 0 of marketing.

Besides, I already conceded that Soylent is marketed to hipsters. If its creators had "creativity" or "vision", they wouldn't have reinvented Ensure. It's marketing over substance.

Re:Soylent’s Next Chapter by 0xDOOD on Wednesday January 14, 2015 @12:19PM (#8887594)
>What if Ensure had a cool name and didn't carry connotations of age and disease?

"Soylent" carries connotations of being made of the ground up corpses of the poor, so...

> What if it was easy to flavour and make delicious?

Is it easier to do with Soylent than Ensure, or any other drink? You can put sugar into anything, and "delicious" is relative.

> What if you signed up for a subscription and never thought about it again?

Other services offer food delivery, and arguably, just going to the store is often more convenient and cost effective.

>What if you got it from vending machines that were everywhere you went and recognised you as you approached, having a glass perfectly formulated to your tastes and needs at that precise moment ready?

Soylent doesn't have vending machines networked to some sort of facial-recognition AI.

>What if it came out of a tap?

Soylent doesn't come out of a tap.

> What if your home 3D printer could form it into a multitude of shapes and textures (bar, cookie, cereal) and it would still be nutritionally balanced?

That's an argument for the transformational nature of 3d printing, not Soylent.

> or is it easier, instead of using your imagination and a bit of enthusiasm, to point to how it's similar to a crappy product that nobody bothered to market, and imply that it won't be sucessful - because we all know the success and impact of a product has nothing to do with the creativity, perserverance and vision of the creators, right?

It is similar. Everything you've mentioned about how revolutionary Soylent is, appears to be either marketing hype (Ensure doesn't iterate, it isn't hip, it's associated with old people, etc etc) or pie-in-the-sky stuff that doesn't even relate to Soylent as a product, and doesn't even exist. The argument that the Soylent which actually exists is basically Ensure for hipsters still seems valid.

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Re:Soylent’s Next Chapter by dang on Thursday January 15, 2015 @03:36AM (#8891468)
> Are you really stupid?

Personal attacks are not allowed here. Please follow the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Soylent’s Next Chapter by philwelch on Wednesday January 14, 2015 @11:55PM (#8890950)
Marketing hype. If you look at what the substance of Soylent is, and what the product actually accomplishes, it's basically Ensure, except marketed to hipsters instead of the sick and elderly. The fact that the founder can write science-fiction blog posts about facial recognition based vending machines and 3D printing? Big deal. Writing science-fiction blog posts about stuff you want to invent is the easy part.
Re:Soylent’s Next Chapter by DanBC on Wednesday January 14, 2015 @06:24PM (#8889877)
The downvotes are asking you to moderate your tone.
Re:Soylent’s Next Chapter by chasing on Wednesday January 14, 2015 @11:08AM (#8887093)
Re:Soylent’s Next Chapter by diminoten on Wednesday January 14, 2015 @11:03AM (#8887068)
> HN is supposed to represent some of the world's most dynamic, forward-thinkers.

Where in the hell did you get that idea?

Re:Soylent’s Next Chapter by throwaway124093 on Wednesday January 14, 2015 @11:19AM (#8887185)
While HN can be negative, it's not primary reason I don't read HN much anymore. It's because (as demonstrated by your comment) people just state opinions without any arguments attached. When people say "X is bad" rather "X is bad for Y reason" it's leaves all the argumentation up to the reader. It's these kind of attacks that make HN emotionally draining.
Re:Soylent’s Next Chapter by vtlynch on Wednesday January 14, 2015 @11:10AM (#8887111)
Holy shit you sound despicable.
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Re:Soylent’s Next Chapter by stouset on Wednesday January 14, 2015 @01:50PM (#8888199)
To be sure, I think most people would get more value out of the writings of a Nobel laureate than some pseudonymous guy ranting off-topic on HN.
Re:Soylent’s Next Chapter by jasonisalive on Wednesday January 14, 2015 @06:22PM (#8889871)
Mmm, I hope you got some value from him when he made this pearler: "By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's."
Re:Soylent’s Next Chapter by vtlynch on Wednesday January 14, 2015 @01:33PM (#8888081)
Yeah you probably prefer professional idiot Thomas Friedman