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Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by dmourati on Sunday November 23, 2014 @08:04PM (#8650576)
Carlsen came to play an exhibition at my previous company. He played against 8 players simultaneously. Two had been chess-club players and competitively ranked. One employee played Carlsen to a draw. This earned several gasps from his handlers who had never seen such a thing. They asked what she was ranked and she said she wasn't with a wry smile. Truly something special to behold.
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by glomph on Sunday November 23, 2014 @08:58PM (#8650687)
Only tangentially related but hey:

There is an interesting trick that was common for a time and still gets referenced by magicians where even the worst chess player can guarantee that they will win at least half of n chess games where n is any even number. They will also be able to appear to need very little time when they get to each table.

The trick of course is just to play each player against another. The magician acts as a proxy and makes the moves of one player against another. Of course it takes a little practice at memorisation but magicians are often practised at mnemonics anyway.

Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by slm_HN on Sunday November 23, 2014 @09:22PM (#8650748)
This is part of the plot of Sidney Sheldon's If Tomorrow Comes. A woman on a cruise ship with two chess grandmasters bets a large amount of money that she can draw a game with each of them. Of course she plays them at the same time, one game with white, the other black.

It's hilariously improbable to chess players, but some of my non-playing friends thought it was clever.

Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by krisgenre on Monday November 24, 2014 @12:30AM (#8651178)
Lot people do this in online chess games by using a computer.
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by mathattack on Monday November 24, 2014 @12:29PM (#8653437)
If you do this too much your ranking gets raised. And at that point, why bother?
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by tbrake on Sunday November 23, 2014 @09:04PM (#8650701)
Derren Brown pulled this off but with 9 boards, scoring 4W 3L 2D. The strongest players he played "against" each other and was able to beat the weakest (relatively speaking) player there. Quite impressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evZmpsl3jI0

Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by zeroonetwothree on Monday November 24, 2014 @12:43AM (#8651206)
I doubt he actually had to "beat" anyone. Magicians don't like to do tricks that might not work :).
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by Osmium on Monday November 24, 2014 @08:44AM (#8652303)
> Magicians don't like to do tricks that might not work :)

I actually don't think this is true. As I understand it, a given routine will have a number of high-risk tricks that may work, say, only 1-in-3 times. If they do work, they're highly effective, precisely because they're so implausible, and if they don't work you can just pretend it's a bluff and move onto plan B. It's all about effective showmanship and managing expectations.

(Disclaimer: not a magician!)

Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by gyom on Monday November 24, 2014 @02:07PM (#8654043)
That's kind of a cool approach. As long as you can "salvage" the trick, then nobody needs to know about the failed portion.

One of my friends had a card trick that involved me selecting a card. Before starting the trick, he jokingly picked a card at random from the deck, and asked me if that was my card. He had 1/52 chances of being right, but it would have been an insane trick if it had worked.

He guessed wrong (naturally), shrugged and went on with the actual trick as though the first attempt was just a joke, to be forgotten because an actual trick was about to take place.

Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by glomph on Tuesday November 25, 2014 @03:07PM (#8659417)
He may also have been practising a risky method of forcing a card on you. It is standard advice to do this often as it is the only real way of getting good at it.
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by andreash on Monday November 24, 2014 @02:13AM (#8651370)
anyone knows how he did the number predections in the end?
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by rotinomlled on Monday November 24, 2014 @06:47AM (#8651959)
Magic!
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by bluecalm on Sunday November 23, 2014 @09:47PM (#8650827)
Well, it's not always the case but usually a player giving a simul is white in all the games so it's not going to work :)
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by glomph on Tuesday November 25, 2014 @11:07AM (#8658240)
Magicians probably wouldn't be playing in the same situations as standard chess players and it would probably be easy to usurp this norm with throw away lines like 'and I don't even need to play as white against all of you'.
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by eru on Monday November 24, 2014 @06:11AM (#8651868)
Unless they manage to lose exactly one move?
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by lmm on Monday November 24, 2014 @07:06AM (#8652015)
You can't generically just "lose" a move; you can do some three-move wiggles but you'd be relying on your opponent cooperating with you.
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by muyuu on Monday November 24, 2014 @06:17AM (#8651878)
Huh? Black and White are not symmetrical, so it's not a matter of chucking a turn somewhere somehow.
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by eru on Tuesday November 25, 2014 @12:37AM (#8656498)
They are symmetrical once you mirror.
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by muyuu on Tuesday November 25, 2014 @03:51AM (#8656921)
Nope, it's pretty basic theory that 1 turn advantage changes this symmetry completely. Take a chess board and try it yourself.
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by eru on Wednesday November 26, 2014 @12:50AM (#8661236)
That's why you need to lose exactly one move to make it symmetric. Like my original comment said.

And we don't want symmetry on one board, but between two boards.

Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by muyuu on Wednesday November 26, 2014 @09:33AM (#8662432)
Still no, you cannot lose a move in the opening. There is no "pass" move in chess. In fact any initial move no matter how wasteful you try to make it, will very soon alter the game. Even rook pawn a3 or h3 will soon have an influence in the game and cannot be ignored. It's very hard to craft the equivalent of a lost move in the early game - say, use an extra move with the bishop or something like that - and it's virtually impossible without the collaboration of the opponent.

Try it yourself vs a few instances of your favourite chess software or just here http://www.chess.com/play/computer (requires Java). Open a few instances and see how can you chuck away a move.

Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by petilon on Sunday November 23, 2014 @08:20PM (#8650607)
Imagine playing chess while blindfolded. Now imagine playing against 33 people simultaneously while being blindfolded and winning 29 games and losing none. This was done by American Grandmaster Timur Gareev, see: http://www.uschess.org/content/view/12187/709 To do this you have keep 33 chessboards in your mind simultaneously, and track the movement of 32 pieces on each board.
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by bluecalm on Sunday November 23, 2014 @09:53PM (#8650839)
The record is even higher at 46 boards: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_chess#...

Playing a game blindfolded seems like incredible feat if you are not serious/competitive chess player. Playing several sounds like magic. The thing is though that at certain level almost anybody can play decent blindfolded game, especially vs much weaker opponent. Playing several takes some practice but it's mainly connected with not being confused (anchoring positions to something so it's easy to switch). It's really not that much more taxing on the brain as chess players have tons of positions memorized anyway. I am talking about 2-3-4 games. 10 is already very impressive to me and things like 20+ is insane even for competitive chess player standards.

Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by petegrif on Sunday November 23, 2014 @10:49PM (#8650976)
IT sounds like an incredible feat even if you are a serious/competitive chess player. And whilst it is indeed the case that 'at a certain level almost anybody can play a decent blindfolded game' that level is high.
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by ghshephard on Monday November 24, 2014 @04:25AM (#8651597)
I have a colleague at work who plays blindfold chess with his nine year old son on road trips. Well, it's not actually blindfold chess, neither of them are wearing blind folds - they just are able to play games without a board, which, if you think about it, is pretty amazing.
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by Tloewald on Monday November 24, 2014 @08:56AM (#8652346)
You just hope that the son doesn't make an especially brilliant move and cause a car accident.
[deleted]
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by muyuu on Monday November 24, 2014 @06:33AM (#8651924)
I can play blindfolded and I'm nowhere near Kramnik. I've been around 17 hundreds in ELO when I played the most. I usually beat my beginner family members playing blindfolded against them.

I don't think about individual pieces placed in a board but rather interactions and moves. Pieces are not located at random, you can remember where pieces are because you remember the plans, the threats and the moves that lead to a setup. If I had to remember seemingly random arrangements of pieces it would be a completely different story and much harder.

Might help that I also played Shogi rather intensely and after being used to Shogi, the chess board feels very small.

Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by hackuser on Monday November 24, 2014 @12:08AM (#8651134)
On one hand that's amazing. On the other, if you're a sysadmin, could you remember the configurations of 33 servers? It's not hard to imagine.
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by rwallace on Monday November 24, 2014 @03:59AM (#8651546)
Not well enough to admin them blindfold, I couldn't!
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by ap22213 on Monday November 24, 2014 @08:28AM (#8652243)
I decided to do a total re-write of one of my applications over the weekend. 30k lines later, I'm wondering if this at all feels similar.

When I'm alert, jacked up on caffeine, I can keep track of 100s of classes, 1000s of methods and member variables. When, I'm in the flow, I basically write the program in my head and let the fingers be my mouth.

Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by cdelsolar on Monday November 24, 2014 @01:03PM (#8653635)
You rewrote an entire 30K line app in a weekend?? I have a side project that I really need to rewrite and I keep predicting it will take me weeks. Maybe I should actually give it a try.
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by ap22213 on Monday November 24, 2014 @01:27PM (#8653776)
Don't get me wrong, some of it was refactoring. So, there was quite a lot of copy-paste / text replacements. A lot of moving things here and there. Splitting classes. Encapsulating stuff. Creating new libraries. Etc.

There's a fair amount of new code... I'd say 10000 - 15000 lines, some of which I generated.

Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by cdelsolar on Monday November 24, 2014 @03:21PM (#8654521)
Yeah - I actually need to add a lot of new functionality and change the language, so it might take me a while longer. Still pretty cool. Refactoring can be fun.
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by carlob on Monday November 24, 2014 @04:39AM (#8651635)
Was it this game?

https://imgur.com/a/Moicv

Maybe she wasn't ranked at the time, but a quick search revealed she played chess at an international level in her youth.

Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by dmourati on Monday November 24, 2014 @12:19PM (#8653382)
Yup.
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by rajacombinator on Monday November 24, 2014 @01:57AM (#8651348)
People are really underappreciating the mutual badassery of the story you just shared.
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by nl on Sunday November 23, 2014 @09:44PM (#8650820)
There's a trick to beating good players in simil play.

If a few players use the same openings and get themselves into similar positions it's very hard for the opposing player to keep track of the small differences that accrue.

Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by nullmove on Monday November 24, 2014 @09:20AM (#8652433)
This is only applicable for blindfolded simuls where one needs to remember all board configurations. If the GM (or the one providing simul) can see the board then he wouldn't need to track differences, he can simply play according to each board. Only in blindfold does he need to remember each configuration with perfect clarity so tiny differences can get very confusing.

Anyway, this reminds me of an anecdote I read long ago in a Tim Krabbe piece:

"A grandmaster once played a 10-board blind simul somewhere. Knowing the ropes of blind simuls, he varied his games right from the start, maybe opening two with 1.e4, two with 1.d4, one with 1.b3, and so on. To his suprise, all of his opponents played 1...b6. On the second move, five of them played 2...Bb7, and the other five 2...Ba6. On the third, three of the five players who had played 2...Bb7 now played 3...Bc8 and the other two played 3...Ba6, while three of the five who had played 2...Ba6 now played 3...Bb7, and the other two 3...Bc8. On move 4, the grandmaster saw bishops everywhere. After move 5, he excused himself and went to the toilet where he was happy to find a window big enough to let him through."

Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by nl on Tuesday November 25, 2014 @03:40AM (#8656894)
I think that's one of the anecdotes that I read regarding that strategy, but I didn't know it was from Krabbe.

I agree it probably works better in blindfold play, but it works well in normal simul too (I used it successfully once, though that wasn't against a GM, and I had fairly recently stopped playing competitive chess).

Now going way off topic, but Krabbe's cycling book "The Rider"[1] is probably the best book about cycling I've ever read. Along with "Once a Runner"[2] I think it probably the best piece of sporting fiction ever:

My whole life had only one goal: making that last wheel, here, now. I was wasted. But that elusive finish line, eight, seven, six and a half meters in front of me, kept my hope and desire awake. I coughed and slobbered. I remembered the words of advice ‘Shift, when you’re really, truly at the end of your rope, to a higher gear.’ I shifted. A few hysterical kicks on the thirteen, then clenched power of a mortal struggle. I was there. I was sitting on that last wheel. I was in the lead group.

[1] http://cyclingtips.com.au/2010/11/the-rider/

[2] http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2008/12/speed_...

Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by qznc on Monday November 24, 2014 @07:06AM (#8652013)
An interesting question: What is the best strategy for a group of mediocre chess players against a grandmaster in simul?

Similar moves with small differences to encourage mistakes? Very different to make the mental switching harder? Very esoteric openings to avoid "played this a 1000 times" situations for the grandmaster?

Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by nl on Tuesday November 25, 2014 @03:30AM (#8656858)
Similar moves.

The GM's positional ability is almost certainly better than yours.

Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by xianshou on Monday November 24, 2014 @04:06AM (#8651561)
Was this Addepar? I think I remember the match.
Re:Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship by dmourati on Monday November 24, 2014 @01:33PM (#8653825)
Yes.