News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Who's afraid of bromine? by mlichtenstern on Saturday September 27, 2014 @01:53AM (#8376202)
I am; they've added it to our enriched flour breads since the 80's and it blocks iodine receptors. Look up iodine deficiency, said to affect 70% of Americans, and this is alarming. The deficiency has been linked to thyroid problems and cancer, especially breast and prostate cancer, as iodine helps regulate hormones. I have NO trust for our "food system" or "safety regulators." It's all about how to make a buck. You can hardly find any food without unnecessary and harmful additives. Soy lecithin - an allergen is everywhere as is whey (dairy - why do I need this in my chicken apple sausage??), maltodextrin (gluten), MSG (migraine central). It's pitiful. Yes; bromine is one of many scary elements we over-use.
Re:Who's afraid of bromine? by jandrewrogers on Saturday September 27, 2014 @02:47AM (#8376297)
I am only responding to this to point out that your post is completely inconsistent with elementary chemistry and biomedical science, lest someone else actually take it seriously.

Fact: Bromine is an essential element in mammalian biology. We need to consume it.

Fact: Bromine does not preferentially crowd out iodine. It does tend to concentrate in the same tissues as iodine for the obvious chemistry reason but it does not materially impede iodine absorption. Which has actually been measured in mammals in biomedical studies.

Fact: Some populations, like the Japanese, consume relatively huge quantities of bromine from natural dietary sources while still having (modestly) lower levels of thyroid disease than cultures that consume much less. This is an expected demographic result given the aforementioned biomedical research that would predict this, given that bromine does not crowd out iodine.

If we biologically require both iodine and bromine, which we do, it is pretty reasonable to assume that evolution makes sure the ions get to where they need to go. Human biology is full of superficially conflicting ion requirements: iodine and bromine, sodium and potassium, calcium and magnesium, etc.

As an added bonus, ions like bromine (and iodine) tend to be promptly excreted if you consume more than your body actually requires, so they don't stay in your system long in any case if they are not serving a purpose. There is nothing intrinsically dangerous about bromine.

Re:Who's afraid of bromine? by mlichtenstern on Saturday September 27, 2014 @01:43PM (#8377652)
"Bromine has no necessary function in the body. Substantial exposure to it can cause iodine deficiency, which will ultimately wreak havoc with the thyroid and every tissue in the body."

http://www.bodybio.com/content.aspx?page=bromine-bullies-iod...

Re:Who's afraid of bromine? by shabble on Saturday September 27, 2014 @02:04PM (#8377712)
There is a recent paper suggesting it may in fact be essential as a trace element: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24906154

Although exactly where modern diet/exposure lies on the necessary/harm spectrum is substantially different question.

Re:Who's afraid of bromine? by pyre on Saturday September 27, 2014 @02:55AM (#8376311)
> There is nothing intrinsically dangerous about bromine.

... other than coming into contact with pure Bromine... :P

Re:Who's afraid of bromine? by userbinator on Saturday September 27, 2014 @03:02AM (#8376324)
> MSG (migraine central).

Certain individuals may be more sensitive to glutamates than the majority but there's no evidence to show that they are harmful in the amounts that are regularly consumed - and those in Asia average a far higher daily intake of it than in the West, yet no specific health issues have ever been identified due to this.

(Personally, I find it has a pleasant stimulating effect, like caffeine but milder.)

Re:Who's afraid of bromine? by mlichtenstern on Saturday September 27, 2014 @01:41PM (#8377642)
I would not say "no evidence." There certainly is...
Re:Who's afraid of bromine? by CountSessine on Saturday September 27, 2014 @03:36PM (#8377956)
No, at this point, in 2014, there really isn't any good evidence that MSG consumption is harmful. Of course, if one's knowledge of biochemistry and medical science was restricted to what they read in blog articles on terrible food supplement websites like bodybio.com, they might think otherwise ...
Re:Who's afraid of bromine? by mlichtenstern on Monday September 29, 2014 @05:26AM (#8382166)
Perhaps if one's knowledge of biochemistry is restricted to the opinion of their peers and they made assumptions about the extent of the research & sources that inform others' views based on miniscule data, they would remain ignorant to such contrary evidence.

Is it any wonder that average lifespan of doctors is significantly shorter than the general population?

Re:Who's afraid of bromine? by CountSessine on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @01:28PM (#8389547)
Random crackpot is random. I showed this comment to everyone here. We all had a good laugh. Thank you.
Re:Who's afraid of bromine? by mlichtenstern on Thursday October 02, 2014 @06:07PM (#8403361)
Here are a few more "random crackpots" for you - not comprehensive, but enough to have another giggle fest about. Enjoy!

(1) Metcalfe, D. “Food Allergy.” Primary Care: Clinics in Office Practice25.4 (1998): 819-29. Print.

(2) Simon, R. A. “Additive-induced Urticaria: Experience with Monosodium Glutamate (MSG).” Journal of Nutrition 130.4S Supplemental (2000): 1063S-066S. Print.

(3) Yang, W. H., M. A. Drouin, M. Herbert, Y. Mao, and J. Karsh. “The Monosodium Glutamate Symptom Complex: Assessment in a Double-blind, Placebo-controlled, Randomized Study.” The Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology Part 1 99.6 (1997): 757-62. Print.

(4) Blaylock, Russell L. Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills. Santa Fe, NM: Health, 1998. Print.

(5) Lorden, J. F., and A. Claude. “Behavioral and Endocrinological Effects of Single Injections of Monosodium Glutamate in the Mouse.” Neurobehavioral Toxicology and Teratology 8.5 (1986): 509-19. Print.

(6) Blaylock, Russell. “Food Additives: What You Eat Can Kill You.” The Blaylock Wellness Report 4 (Oct. 2007): 3-4. Print.

(7) Blaylock, Russell L. Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills. Santa Fe, NM: Health, 1998. Print.

(8) Blaylock, Russell. “Food Additives: What You Eat Can Kill You.” The Blaylock Wellness Report 4 (Oct. 2007): 3-4. Print.

(9) Ohguro, H., Katsushima, H., Maruyama, I., Maeda, T., Yanagihashi, S., Metoki, T., Nakazawa, M. “A high dietary intake of sodium glutamate as flavoring (ajinomoto) causes gross changes in retinal morphology and function.” Experimental Eye Research 75.3 (2002).: 307-15. Print.

Re:Who's afraid of bromine? by CountSessine on Friday October 03, 2014 @04:51PM (#8407590)
(1) Metcalfe, D. “Food Allergy.” Primary Care: Clinics in Office Practice25.4 (1998): 819-29. Print.

Ok - Primary Care: Clinics in Office Practice - not exactly a research journal, but it appears to be peer reviewed, at least. The abstract for the article says,

The term “food allergy” is synonomous with food hypersensitivity. “Food intolerance” is a term applied to any abnormal response to an ingested food. Food allergy encompasses several clinicopathologic entities. These include classic, immediate reactions to foods that are IgE mediated and involve basophils, mast cells, and delayed reactions that involve a number of immunologic effector systems .

There are limited data available relative to the prevalence of food allergies in the general population. The prevalence of cow's milk allergy was found to be 2.2% in a study of Danish infants. One Dutch study based on questionnaires, clinical follow-up, and double-blind, placebo-controlled food challenge estimated the prevalence of food allergy and intolerance in adults together to be 2.4%. Reactions to additives have been estimated at 0.01% to 0.23%, as assessed by questionnaire and compared with the number that could be confirmed by means of double-blind challenge.

Without jogging over to the library, I wouldn't think that this had anything to do with MSG.

(2) Simon, R. A. “Additive-induced Urticaria: Experience with Monosodium Glutamate (MSG).” Journal of Nutrition 130.4S Supplemental (2000): 1063S-066S. Print.

Do you have Urticaria? What are the results of the study?

Two subjects had positive single-blind, placebo-controlled challenges, but neither had a positive double-blind, placebo-controlled challenge. We conclude, with 95% confidence, that MSG is an unusual (<3% at most) exacerbant of chronic idiopathic urticaria.

So they went looking for a reaction with subjects whom they thought might have some kind of reaction, and essentially couldn't find it. Does that appease your tin-foil hat?

(3) Yang, W. H., M. A. Drouin, M. Herbert, Y. Mao, and J. Karsh. “The Monosodium Glutamate Symptom Complex: Assessment in a Double-blind, Placebo-controlled, Randomized Study.” The Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology Part 1 99.6 (1997): 757-62. Print.

Here's the conclusion:

Rechallenge revealed an apparent threshold dose for reactivity of 2.5 gm MSG. Headache (p<0.023), muscle tightness (p<0.004), numbness/tingling (p<0.007), general weakness (p<0.040), and flushing (p<0.016) occurred more frequently after MSG than placebo ingestion.

Well, the results are interesting. 1998. Hmm - why don't we look at a similar follow-up study conducted a bit more recently?

Raif S. Geha, MDa, Alexa Beiser, PhDb, Clement Ren, MDa, Roy Patterson, MDc, Paul A. Greenberger, MDc, Leslie C. Grammer, MDc, Anne M. Ditto, MDc, Kathleen E. Harris, BSc, Martha A. Shaughnessy, BSc, Paul R. Yarnold, PhDc, Jonathan Corren, MDd, Andrew Saxon, MDd. "Multicenter, double-blind, placebo-controlled, multiple-challenge evaluation of reported reactions to monosodium glutamate." Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology Volume 106, Issue 5, November 2000, Pages 973–980

Here's the conclusion:

Conclusion: The results suggest that large doses of MSG given without food may elicit more symptoms than a placebo in individuals who believe that they react adversely to MSG. However, neither persistent nor serious effects from MSG ingestion are observed, and the responses were not consistent on retesting

In non-scientific terms, "they're a bunch of hypochondriacs and it's all in their heads."

(4) Blaylock, Russell L. Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills. Santa Fe, NM: Health, 1998. Print. (6) Blaylock, Russell. “Food Additives: What You Eat Can Kill You.” The Blaylock Wellness Report 4 (Oct. 2007): 3-4. Print. (7) Blaylock, Russell L. Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills. Santa Fe, NM: Health, 1998. Print. (8) Blaylock, Russell. “Food Additives: What You Eat Can Kill You.” The Blaylock Wellness Report 4 (Oct. 2007): 3-4. Print.

Have a look at the references in Blaylock's articles. He starts off with a really sketchy study done in 1957 force-feeding monkeys outrageous doses of MSG.

Still, he's a doctor - a neurosurgeon no less, right? What does the Skeptic's Dictionary say about him?

Blaylock has retired from neurosurgery and has taken up a career opposing science-based medicine and promoting pseudoscience-based medicine and supplements that he sells under the label Brain Repair Formula. He suggests that his supplements can treat and prevent such diseases as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. He asserts that his formula "will maximize your brain’s ability to heal and reduce inflammation." The rest of the scientific community seems oblivious to these claims, which are not based on large-scale clinical trials. Blaylock also sells hope to cancer patients by encouraging them to believe he has found the secret to prevention and cure.

Well that's not good. Continuing,

He [Blaylock] opines that the social drug problem in the United States was created by the nefarious former Soviet Union "to weaken the resistance of Western society to Soviet invasion, undermine religion and make the youth unable to resist collectivism." And, oh yes, the Soviets were also responsible for an epidemic of hepatitis, AIDS, venereal diseases and highly resistant tuberculosis.

I think I'm going to ignore all of the Blaylock references on your list.

(5) Lorden, J. F., and A. Claude. “Behavioral and Endocrinological Effects of Single Injections of Monosodium Glutamate in the Mouse.” Neurobehavioral Toxicology and Teratology 8.5 (1986): 509-19. Print.

Seriously?

(9) Ohguro, H., Katsushima, H., Maruyama, I., Maeda, T., Yanagihashi, S., Metoki, T., Nakazawa, M. “A high dietary intake of sodium glutamate as flavoring (ajinomoto) causes gross changes in retinal morphology and function.” Experimental Eye Research 75.3 (2002).: 307-15. Print.

Another mouse study. This one they directly injected crazy amounts of MSG into mice eyes and then tested their vision (seriously - how did they get the idea for this study)? Hardly the most conclusive study.

Sorry - you're still a crackpot.

Re:Who's afraid of bromine? by mlichtenstern on Saturday October 04, 2014 @03:19PM (#8410316)
Yes; we test things on mice...and we can go really deep on the history of FDA and "pseudoscience," as well as your other rebuffs. But, as you like name calling and the like, you're not exactly on the level of EQ that inspires me to invest the time. It is good that you are looking into it, however. As I said, this is by no means comprehensive. Keep researching ... and maturing...
Re:Who's afraid of bromine? by dang on Saturday October 04, 2014 @03:06PM (#8410256)
> Sorry - you're still a crackpot.

Personal attacks are not allowed on Hacker News, regardless of how wrong the other person may be.

Re:Who's afraid of bromine? by mlichtenstern on Thursday October 02, 2014 @05:58PM (#8403327)
You had a good laugh with your peers? How lovely. As they say "ignorance is bliss." Thanks for sharing.
Re:Who's afraid of bromine? by barsonme on Saturday September 27, 2014 @02:21AM (#8376242)
Whey is used as an emulsifier in processed meats[1].

Personally the biggest issue I've noticed with these "bad ingredient" trends is that,

1.) Most issues seem to come from overuse (e.g. drinking too much soda), and

2.) They're easy scapegoats for many issues which have arose in the last ~20 or so years.

There's certainly an argument to be made for the recent occurrence of some of these issues being due to increased scrutiny or increased intake of said product.

Anecdotally, I know my father is allergic to wheat and corn. My younger brother is (potentially -- last I heard he's testing it) allergic as well.

I've had no negative side effects, but I do eat much less processed food and grains than they both do/did. But, again, that's very anecdotal and in no way is it a representation of a larger population.

[1] http://www.usdec.org/files/pdfs/6meat.pdf

Re:Who's afraid of bromine? by mlichtenstern on Monday September 29, 2014 @05:37AM (#8382180)
In general, there are too many unnecessary additives in our food supply. I went to Boston Market the other night hoping to find a simple meal for my daughter, who has food sensitivities like her dad, and could not find one single dish without allergens. The chicken had maltodextrin (wheat), veggies had soy lecithin...it was a crying shame.

I know how to cook from scratch and cannot understand why there is so much garbage in prepared foods. Simple foods like potato salad and bread in a typical grocery store have ridiculous ingredients.