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Re:The New Moto G by bane on Friday September 05, 2014 @02:45PM (#8275575)
Is anybody else impressed that this is basically better in technical specifications to the netbooks of yor, in the size of a phone, for <$180 off contract?

Yeah I know hardware always keeps getting better and cheaper, but still when you stand back for a second, and think about it, it's kind of wow. I guess the innovation here is making a decent device that's cheap, but the fact that it's cheap and small and has good specs and battery life? Wowzers.

Yet, I almost wish these devices did a little bit more to work in non-handheld modes. I'd be happy to ditch my laptop for most things if I could get better interface access to the hardware in a modern smartphone, even if the interface wasn't optimal, an impromptu computing environment at a coffee shop would be pretty nice. Hell, I just got a Note 3, and it's just about as powerful as the desktop I replaced at the end of last year. I'd wager it's too powerful for most of the mobile junk I do with it. Plopping it down on a table next to my coffee and just turning it onto "computer" mode would be pretty amazing.

Something like what's outlined here with pico projectors.

https://pdf.yt/d/J5nSHPu5dzdpWwvn

Another issue is that, when phone shopping, it's hard enough to tell what are the newer devices vs what are the models on the way out (and on the way out of being supported). $180 is just about at the price of phones that are on the way out vs. ~$300 for phones that are current models. It won't matter to many people, but unless the phone sales guy tells you, or you're up to date on current phone releases, you might give this a pass.

Re:The New Moto G by ZenoArrow on Friday September 05, 2014 @03:49PM (#8275929)
"Plopping it down on a table next to my coffee and just turning it onto "computer" mode would be pretty amazing."

Yeah, I'm excited about this possibility too. It's a shame Canonical couldn't get the Ubuntu on Android project off the ground (too little interest from phone manufacturers/carriers AFAIR). However, all is not lost, there's another project working on this kind of convergence, will happily install their Android ROM when it's ready... https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/linuxonandroid

Re:The New Moto G by tdicola on Friday September 05, 2014 @03:24PM (#8275799)
Don't believe the hype of pico projectors. I have one on a Sony camcorder and it's really not useful at all. You need a very dark room to get a good image. To make something usable in normal light conditions would require a super powerful multi-watt LED with big heatsinks and maybe even a fan.
Re:The New Moto G by bane on Friday September 05, 2014 @04:51PM (#8276222)
I remember seeing some early laser based projectors awhile ago that produced something reasonably usable inside during day time. But that was 7 or 8 years ago. I've heard that there are some laser-based pico projectors about to come out, they might be better vs. an LED based projector.

There's some tiny bluetooth keyboard projectors that now use green laser light and are very bright.

Here's a vendor that apparently sells them (but I couldn't find any pictures of the green keyboard versions).

Some of their interesting devices

http://www.ctxtechnologies.com/products/misteex/

http://www.ctxtechnologies.com/products/vk300-iphone-docking...

Re:The New Moto G by on_and_off on Saturday September 06, 2014 @08:19AM (#8278153)
It is indeed very impressive. The shitiest smartphone on the market today is still an absolute technical wonder. Google's goal with Android has always been to commoditize smartphones. It would probably have happened either way (even high end smartphones are heavily subsidized after all) but maybe not that fast.

Motorola has been very good at embracing this. Their Moto G is by no mean perfect, but it is an excellent phone at an affordable price.

The 'race to bottom' is often decried in our era obsessed with profits and money, but bringing this kind of first grade technology to anyone on the planet is a pretty good goal. I am very excited by what Android One will be able to bring. It is time for this kind of project : it is now possible to build good smartphones at low prices.

Even as a mobile developer, phone launchs are pretty boring. There has not been a major breakthrough in quite some time and I suspect that they are going to be increasingly rare.

Re:The New Moto G by RIMR on Friday September 05, 2014 @07:34PM (#8276856)
You know, a 1GHz x86 core is far more powerful than a 1GHz ARM core.

These devices come nowhere close to competing with traditional computers. Not yet...

Re:The New Moto G by mappu on Friday September 05, 2014 @07:58PM (#8276924)
Nvidia claimed the Tegra 3 outperforms a Core2, it was pretty widely reported back in 2011.

I posit that phones outperform laptops for a lot of people (possibly because upgrading your phone is more widely encouraged).

Re:The New Moto G by barrkel on Friday September 05, 2014 @09:24PM (#8277104)
Details on that: http://www.brightsideofnews.com/2011/02/21/why-nvidiae28099s...

For historical perspective, Core 2 Duos are from 2006/7. And T7200 is a laptop version, slower than desktop equivalents of the same era.

Desktop CPUs are still much, much faster than phone CPUs. Here's a table with lots of numbers:

http://www.computingcompendium.com/p/arm-vs-intel-benchmarks...

The iPhone 5s, with the "desktop class" A7 chip, has about 15% of the computing power of an i7 4770k, by this benchmark.

Personally, I don't use mobile devices - neither phones nor laptops - for compute-heavy operations. Everything from compilation to video transcoding takes way longer than on a decent desktop. Phones are not close to threatening that yet, not by a long shot.

Trivial work, like text editing, light photo manipulation, sure. Anything that could be done on a PC 15 years ago, sure. But they're nowhere near one another.

Re:The New Moto G by ahomescu1 on Saturday September 06, 2014 @04:42AM (#8277860)
> Personally, I don't use mobile devices - neither phones nor laptops - for compute-heavy operations. Everything from compilation to video transcoding takes way longer than on a decent desktop. Phones are not close to threatening that yet, not by a long shot.

One option is to run compute-heavy stuff on a networked server, which you SSH into from a lightweight phone/tablet/Chromebook. I can definitely see myself working like that, if I could get a phone or tablet with a docking station.

Re:The New Moto G by dijit on Saturday September 06, 2014 @01:21PM (#8278852)
SSH isn't as light as many people think, just because your CISC desktop yawns at it doesn't mean it's not computationally heavy.
Re:The New Moto G by Kayou on Saturday September 06, 2014 @05:31PM (#8279555)
Wow, I installed Windows 8 on a T7100 (1.8Ghz) and it runs super smoothly, but some people were complaining of Tegra 3 windows RT tablet being slow? (try googling "tegra 3 windows RT slow") That is weird! Can we really trust those benchmark for real day to day comparison? Or maybe I don't have the same speed expectation as the tablet users?
Re:The New Moto G by siegecraft on Friday September 05, 2014 @10:16PM (#8277239)
Is it just me or is that A7 performance crazy impressive? Especially comparing an iphone to the size of an i7 + cooling + power
Re:The New Moto G by Kayou on Saturday September 06, 2014 @05:41PM (#8279576)
Yep, I think the A8 (or A7X) could be really close to the performances of entry level CPUs used in MacBook air! An A7 scores 2564 and an i3-3217U 3095. But if you look at the Atom Bay Trail, which scores 2630, you see that Intel did a nice coming back in the mobile segment, at least for tablets.

In the case of a quad cortex A7, like the one in the Moto G, or the MediaTek MT6589 in the bench comparison, we see that the performances are too bad to replace a laptop. With a score of 1258 it is comparable of the best good old netbooks with Intel Atom.

Re:The New Moto G by ris on Saturday September 06, 2014 @09:43AM (#8278336)
Nvidia claim a lot of things about their Tegras.
Re:The New Moto G by bane on Friday September 05, 2014 @09:58PM (#8277187)
I'd actually be interested in some kind of direct comparison of the single core atom in my 2007 era netbook compared to whatever is in this phone as well as to my note 3.
Re:The New Moto G by jbrichter on Saturday September 06, 2014 @01:18AM (#8277597)
Atom from back then really did suck, though. In-order, etc. This thing has one of the newer Qualcomm ARM cores, which are reasonably wide out-of-order.
Re:The New Moto G by tracker1 on Friday September 05, 2014 @06:21PM (#8276616)
I've actually wanted this for my car too... I've thought for several years, if there was a near-field really high speed bluetooth style interface that was similar to chromecast + touch... basically your screen in your car, when your phone is docked (near) the system will now yeild control to your phone... calls, audio, video, touch are all interfaces in the car, for the phone.

The same could be done for a desktop-like computing environment... for that matter a laptop shell... just a battery, screen, keyboard, trackpad that your phone controls.

We're really at a point where this should be doable and eminent... if say Tesla and Apple could get together on this (with very liberal licensing for other companies, as long as they meet the full spec) would be the most likely chance of this getting out there and succeeding.

Re:The New Moto G by bdkoepke on Friday September 05, 2014 @06:35PM (#8276671)
Re:The New Moto G by sp332 on Friday September 05, 2014 @02:53PM (#8275612)
What kind of "computing environment" do you want that a phone doesn't have? Just a bigger screen?
Re:The New Moto G by Touche on Friday September 05, 2014 @03:25PM (#8275811)
Shell access by default. A complete unix toolset. Some type of init system I can hook into to run daemons.

Logically separated layers. Not "you don't like the display server... well you have to re-implement everything from scratch yourself". You know, normal computer things.

Re:The New Moto G by bane on Friday September 05, 2014 @02:56PM (#8275633)
I'd actually be pretty happy if it just projected a reasonable-to-use keyboard on the table. I could work off the screen on a Note, it's big enough and high resolution enough for lots of work.

edit I'm thinking basically of this use-case, but with the projector in the phone.

http://www.brookstone.com/laser-projection-virtual-keyboard

edit apparently this is as close as is available (almost)

http://www.ctxtechnologies.com/products/vk300-iphone-docking...

Re:The New Moto G by eli on Friday September 05, 2014 @02:58PM (#8275642)
Nokia had a prototype with a projected keyboard that kinda sorta worked. Wonder what ever happened to it.
Re:The New Moto G by pan69 on Friday September 05, 2014 @05:55PM (#8276529)
I want a desk with one or more large displays, a keyboard and a mouse where I can "plop" my phone into a docking station for charging and use it instantly as my desktop work station environment for "work". Then I to be able to pick it up when I leave or when the phone rings.
Re:The New Moto G by honestcoyote on Friday September 05, 2014 @10:44PM (#8277305)
I think it would be possible now.

Bluetooth keyboard and mouse, of course, already on the desk. Chromecast hooked up to the monitor. Use one of the Android automation apps to automatically mirror the display via Chromecast when the phone is in range of the BT keyboard / mouse on your desk and when it is laying flat on a surface (plopped onto the desk).

Not perfect. Chromecast latency might be an issue. You would still have to plug it into a charger if you don't have wireless charging. But it should work.

Re:The New Moto G by Kayou on Saturday September 06, 2014 @05:49PM (#8279593)
To kill the screen latency, you could use Miracast, which seems to be much faster than the chromecast (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-5JJhKMph8) or connect a cable (best solution: no heat because of the video encoding, can recharge the phone with MHL, no lag). Also one issue would be the DPI. Working with the big android elements on a, say, 24 inch screen would be a pain. But maybe you could automate a DPI change to rescale the whole interface.
Re:The New Moto G by derekp7 on Friday September 05, 2014 @09:45PM (#8277151)
I would like to find a Bluetooth keyboard in a folding case, that when opened up had a recessed spot to hold the phone, and a big magnifying (12 inch?) lens in the front. Possibly a Fresnel lens, if it can be made so that the ridges doesn't distort the screen image and cause weird patterns.
Re:The New Moto G by pjmlp on Saturday September 06, 2014 @01:40AM (#8277634)
I saw once a guy carrying one that would fold into three parts.

So they are around, just hard to find.

Re:The New Moto G by gregpilling on Saturday September 06, 2014 @11:03AM (#8278495)
I had a folding keyboard for my Handspring 13 years ago. i used it to take notes in classes.
Re:The New Moto G by Zigurd on Friday September 05, 2014 @08:15PM (#8276957)
Android makes it simple to have access to all your documents on multiple devices. That means OEMs are far more likely to make "super tablets," like the 12-13" 4k tablets in prototype stage earlier this year, than external displays for handsets.
Re:The New Moto G by _random_ on Friday September 05, 2014 @03:04PM (#8275677)
I am sorry, but I want my 1024 cores in a mobile device today :).