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Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by DanBC on Thursday July 24, 2014 @08:47PM (#8083236)
Good tip but is it sensible to admit to several criminal offences on a public forum?
Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by dheera on Thursday July 24, 2014 @10:01PM (#8083446)
There was no visible policy. As far as I'm concerned, it was free Wi-Fi for User-Agent X, so I used User-Agent X.
Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by cynicalkane on Thursday July 24, 2014 @10:08PM (#8083466)
Whereas it's obviously silly to suppose that gaining access to Wi-Fi is a criminal act worth worrying about, it's also worth pointing out courts reject arguments like this.

In particular, in more serious legal matters, the fact that you admitted you understood the intent of the policy would be held against you. Courts simply don't buy into the idea that "if something is technically allowed, it's authorized", any more than it's legal to enter through a window if a door is locked.

Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by brownbat on Thursday July 24, 2014 @11:05PM (#8083597)
> courts reject arguments like this.

If by "arguments like this," you mean following the law but with suspect motives, then one of the strengths of the legal system in the US is that the courts absolutely accept arguments like these.

In criminal matters, you typically need both intent and some act forbidden by statute before a finding of guilt. You can't indict someone for ill will.

Intent alone is not generally sufficient for a conviction is the US, save for some cases of special liability (attempts, or some forms of aider and abettor or conspiracy). Sometimes intent doesn't matter at all, but that's generally reserved for traffic cases or statutory rape, where intent would pose special difficulties proving beyond a reasonable doubt at trial.

I can think of only a few notable counterexamples where a court made inferences about true intent and made a finding against a party despite a standing rule that would have let them off. MGM v. Grokster could be read that way. Grokster ran a service with "substantial noninfringing uses," which was previously sufficient for a defense of fair use. However, Grokster was found to infringe based on their constant encouragement for people to use their services to infringe. Grokster had "the object of promoting [their service's] use to infringe copyright, as shown by clear expression or other affirmative steps taken to foster infringement." You could read that as a sort of retroactive punishment for ill intentioned behavior.

Here's the twist though, that wasn't criminal law. There's generally a much higher bar for criminal law to strictly apply statutes as written. In civil law, both parties are citizens with equal rights before the courts, so there's more of a balancing test. In criminal law, most presumptions run against the state.

This isn't just a US twist. A German scholar of jurisprudence, Friedrich Carl von Savigny, was one of the first to argue that criminal (and tax) laws must be interpreted as narrowly as possible, because people deserve fair and clear warning of what is allowed and prohibited. See also the "Rule of Lenity" in statutory interpretation, whereby ambiguous criminal statutes are interpreted in favor of the defendant (wikipedia points to McNally v. US and a few other relevant cases): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statutory_interpretation#Canon...

This isn't just a convention in the US though, judges cannot extend criminal laws to criminalize novel activity, because that would violate prohibitions against "ex post facto" laws under Art. 1 Sec. 9 of the Constitution. Ie, the Constitution forbids making some act a crime after it happened, the state must provide advanced warning. (Well, technically it's a violation of 14th Amendment Due Process, since Art. 1 Sec. 9 only binds the legislature, but similar principles apply). A fuller treatment can be found on this issue from the Supreme Court in Bouie v. City of Columbia and Rogers v. Tennessee. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouie_v._City_of_Columbia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_v._Tennessee

Although dissenting, and again not in criminal law, Scalia provided a nice quip on the subject in the recent Aereo opinion: "It is the role of good lawyers to identify and exploit [legal loopholes], and the role of Congress to eliminate them if it wishes." American Broadcasting Cos. v. Aereo, Inc., (Scalia, dissenting)

(To the point of the intent required by the CFAA, which might be in question here, Kalow v. Springnut would probably be illustrative: http://blog.internetcases.com/2008/07/17/cfaa-requires-inten... )

Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by praptak on Friday July 25, 2014 @12:11AM (#8083722)
It's not about following the law with suspect motives. It's about the fact that following the technical protocol does not give you much defense against unlawful access charges.
Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by brownbat on Friday July 25, 2014 @08:06PM (#8088318)
That's absolutely correct.

I was responding to the naked phrase "technically allowed," which in hindsight is ambiguous (ie, "allowed under the law via a technicality," or "technologically feasible").

Rereading, I still think I interpreted correctly the first time, but really can't be sure.

Good catch.

Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by DanBC on Friday July 25, 2014 @11:58AM (#8085882)
> In criminal matters, you typically need both intent and some act forbidden by statute before a finding of guilt. You can't indict someone for ill will.

Obtaining goods by deception seems to cover this. Especially with the public admission of "I siged on, and had to pay, but discovered that my colleague did not have to pay so I was deceptive about the equipment I used, and the only reason I was deceptive was to avoid the requirement to pay".

There is no element in the discussion about needing to change user agent for work or anything else.

Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by brownbat on Friday July 25, 2014 @07:55PM (#8088297)
> Obtaining goods by deception

aka "false pretenses" or misrepresentation statutes.

Sure, this could fall under those statutes in jurisdictions where that covers services. Defendant would have several ways to make that case a nightmare, to the point where I see it as basically absurd to prosecute, but still conceivably illegal.

I wasn't trying to comment on whether there's some action involved in logging into a network that could satisfy some element in criminal law though. There absolutely could be some "actus reus" from a login.

I was really just intending to respond to the general comment about courts accepting arguments of the sort like, "this is technically permitted under the law, therefore legal." Maybe I misread that point though, maybe cynicalkane's "technically allowed" meant "allowed by the protocol" not "technically allowed by law."

In which case, consider my wandering diatribe above thoroughly moot. :)

Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by diminoten on Friday July 25, 2014 @01:20PM (#8086296)
Can you find an example in case law where someone's been prosecuted for obtaining access to a system by spoofing their MAC ID or user agent string?

Surely this has come up before now, yes?

Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by DanBC on Friday July 25, 2014 @02:28PM (#8086715)
Are you making an oblique reference to Aaron Swartz?

http://www.volokh.com/2013/01/14/aaron-swartz-charges/

But no, I probably can't find cases in courts. But then, I probably wouldn't be able to find cases where people steal the pillows, but that happens although it is a different law.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/10223157/What-c...

> I spoke to the Metropolitan Police on the law regarding towel-lifting. “It is a crime,” its spokesman said. “If we were to receive allegations, we would follow them up.” In reality, it appears most hotels would be more likely to blacklist a guest over a petty theft, charge the items to their card, and save the police the trouble.

This is likely to be the case with fraud, which is both civil and criminal. The criminal fraud is probably tiny (unless you do it in every hotel you go to) and the hotel probably doesn't want the negative publicity. And they probably don't want to encourage the practice of user agent spoofing. So if hotels do care, and do take action, they'll just charge the credit card and block-list the user.

Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by diminoten on Friday July 25, 2014 @02:42PM (#8086854)
There's probably a reason for the fact that there has never been a criminal case such as you've described, and it's for that reason the above poster is safe in writing what he did.
Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by DanBC on Friday July 25, 2014 @03:01PM (#8086993)
So, you ignore the bits of the Swartz case which were about his access of a network by spoofing MAC address and user agent?

You also ignore all the "piggybacking" cases?

Here are a few: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_piggybacking#Unite...

Here's the Met Police saying that they intend to prosecute all such behaviour: http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/08/22/us-britain-wireles...

Still: I'm not sure how you conclude that it is not fraud just because no-one has been to court yet.

Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by diminoten on Friday July 25, 2014 @03:04PM (#8087013)
Read what I wrote more carefully.

I said that the same reasons why there has not been a court case are the reasons why the above commenter can safely write what he has written without fear of prosecution.

Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by kika on Friday July 25, 2014 @12:49AM (#8083820)
What about, say, Safari browser itself, which presents "Gecko" in it's useragent string? If it is a punishable offence, imagine how much money one can extract from Apple for doing so...
Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by lclarkmichalek on Friday July 25, 2014 @03:46AM (#8084151)
Did you even read the comment you are replying to? Intent matters.
Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by JadeNB on Thursday July 24, 2014 @09:08PM (#8083301)
Surely spoofing the user agent is unobjectionable at worst, and spoofing the MAC address perhaps only mildly discouraged? I can't imagine its actually being illegal (but, then again, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_piggybacking for unexpected illegalities).
Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by DanBC on Friday July 25, 2014 @11:26AM (#8085690)
Well, it depends what the hotel policy is. If it's "free wifi for Apple devices" then there's some kind of fraud happening.

The fact that the hotel is incompetent in preventing that fraud by relying on UserAgent seems less important than intent of user when changing UA string.

Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by JadeNB on Friday July 25, 2014 @09:47PM (#8088571)
I'm not sure that I agree with that interpretation --if you stand on the street and say "free hugs for Georges", and I say "I'm a George", has fraud occurred? I guess that I mean --is any misrepresentation, even in the absence of a contract, a (legal) fraud?
Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by wtallis on Thursday July 24, 2014 @09:18PM (#8083336)
Literally every browser out there sends a user agent that is in some way lying. Anyone trying to authenticate based on a user agent is a victim only of their own stupidity, not any sort of crime by their guests.
Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by peteretep on Friday July 25, 2014 @03:53AM (#8084166)
Good thing you're not a lawyer, because it's certainly illegal in the UK...

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1990/18

Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by gambiting on Friday July 25, 2014 @06:43AM (#8084525)
Good thing there are other countries in the world apart from UK and US.
Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by wtallis on Friday July 25, 2014 @08:07AM (#8084742)
It looks to me like that only clearly applies to unauthorized access to programs and data stored on a computer. Unauthorized routing of packets through a computer is not obviously covered by that law.
Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by peteretep on Friday July 25, 2014 @10:27AM (#8085341)
The very, very first clause:

    > he causes a computer to perform any function with intent 
    > to secure access to any program or data held in ***any*** 
    > computer
Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by wtallis on Friday July 25, 2014 @01:13PM (#8086253)
No. That's not sufficient to classify the action as illegal. If you're accessing a public website, but through a wireless router that the owner doesn't want you using without paying for, then the data you're accessing is still data you're authorized to access (it being a public website, after all).

To get charged under this law, you would have to be accused of the unauthorized access of something on the router itself, since that is the only relevant computer you aren't authorized to use. The charges against you would have to be based on the theory that sending packets with a spoofed MAC address or user agent is accessing the routing program and tables on the router in an unauthorized manner. That argument delves much deeper into the law than just the first clause.

Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by DanBC on Friday July 25, 2014 @01:21PM (#8086299)
You're talking about computer misuse law - there are existing cases in UK and probably US that cover this.

Here's one BBC article that talks about it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6960304.stm

> The Communications Act 2003 says a "person who (a) dishonestly obtains an electronic communications service, and (b) does so with intent to avoid payment of a charge applicable to the provision of that service, is guilty of an offence".

Seems pretty clear. A person is paying for hotel access; notices their Apple-device using colleague is not paying; spoofs the user agent; - these seem to cover all the points of dishonesty with the intent to avoid paying for a service.

Even if the hotel is in a country that doesn't have that particular law there is probably some fraud law that covers the actions. (I realise now that I should have mentioned the fraud because that's the more serious offence and it seems some people missed my point).

Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by wtallis on Friday July 25, 2014 @02:08PM (#8086577)
That's an entirely different law from the one that peteretep cited. His assertion that it's illegal may in fact be correct, but his justification was complete bullshit. The fact that you've found a law that is relevant doesn't make him any less wrong.
Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by DanBC on Friday July 25, 2014 @12:11PM (#8085956)
Yes, people who are relying on user agents are stupid.

That doesn't make it any less illegal to use the useragent to deceive someone about what equipment you're using purely to avoid paying a charge.

Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by seanmcdirmid on Thursday July 24, 2014 @09:02PM (#8083288)
IANL, but that probably isn't illegal.
Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by DanBC on Friday July 25, 2014 @12:28PM (#8086051)
A hotel says "free wifi for Ape devices. Everyone else has to pay". A hotel guess decides to misprepresen. What device they have. The only reason they misrepresent their device is in order to avoid paying the charge.

I'm not a lawyer but that feels pretty clearly like fraud.

Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by shiven on Thursday July 24, 2014 @09:51PM (#8083420)
You forgot the </sarcasm> tag.
Re:Choose hotels by the quality of their WiFi by ANTSANTS on Friday July 25, 2014 @03:04AM (#8084058)
Oh DanBC, your comments never disappoint.