News for hackers. Stuff that matters.

A comment on Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23. Parent comment

Re:Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested b... by jychang on Thursday July 10, 2014 @04:41PM (#8017154)
Not implausible at all.

I'm probably in the squeaky clean category. On a day of a meteor shower, I went with some friends to take pictures of the sky. A park ranger arrested us, for being in a national park after dark. After arresting us, he spent 5 mins talking on the radio with some other ranger, then spent 5 mins writing a citation. Paid it in the mail a few weeks later, never heard of it again.

It doesn't take much to be arrested. 40% is a bit high, but then again my group of friends at the time was Harvard/Princeton/Stanford/Berkeley students. The socioeconomic status of the population really doesn't matter.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested b... by tedunangst on Thursday July 10, 2014 @04:55PM (#8017248)
Did he arrest you or give you a citation?
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested b... by head_stomp on Thursday July 10, 2014 @05:38PM (#8017511)
Receiving a citation is a non-custodial arrest.

edit just to make it clear: This is not my opinion. This is the legal definition. The study includes citations as arrests. This is why they make sure to point out that they do not include minor traffic offenses.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested b... by tptacek on Thursday July 10, 2014 @07:28PM (#8017984)
There is a such thing as a non-custodial address, but that does not make every detention encounter with the police that doesn't result in you being taken into custody a "non-custodial arrest". By way of example: if you're issued a speeding ticket, the police do not gain the right to search your vehicle. But they do have that right if they arrest you.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested b... by head_stomp on Thursday July 10, 2014 @09:40PM (#8018457)
Not every detention encounter with the police results in a citation. If it does result in a citation, they have preformed a non-custodial arrest. If they want to search you, they can perform a full-custody arrest even if it's for a misdemeanor that is only punishable by a fine(Atwater v. Lago Vista).

I very strongly agree with Janice Rogers Brown's opinon here: http://www.volokh.com/posts/1125942214.shtml

edit: Hmmm after reading a few things, I now think it depends on the jurisdiction whether they define receiving a citation as a non-custodial arrest.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested b... by mikecb on Friday July 11, 2014 @12:06PM (#8020884)
> the police do not gain the right to search your vehicle.

Depends. Just need probable cause. Motor vehicle exception.

>But they do have that right if they arrest you.

Depends. Search incident to arrest exception with automobile caveats. After Gant, if the arrestee no longer has access, or no reason to believe that evidence of the arrest offense will be found, not ok. (But still maybe ok to impound and inventory.)

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested b... by tptacek on Friday July 11, 2014 @12:19PM (#8020952)
"Probable cause" is all an officer needs to arrest you, too.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested b... by dragonwriter on Friday July 11, 2014 @12:27PM (#8021001)
Right, but the "probable cause" is technically different -- for a search without arrest, they need probable cause to believe that there is contraband in the car, for arrest they need probable cause to believe you have committed a crime. Given that possession of contraband is itself a crime (though generally one with a mental state requirement), there is quite a lot of overlap between the two kinds of "probable cause", but they aren't equivalent.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested b... by tptacek on Friday July 11, 2014 @12:33PM (#8021042)
Yeah, that seems like an important distinction. Thanks.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested b... by mikecb on Friday July 11, 2014 @02:22PM (#8021611)
I won't repeat dragonwriter, but I wasn't criticizing, just pointing out that your statements aren't absolute rules. They just tend to be the simplest statements of the rules that exist.

Also with arrest, lower standard for if they think evidence will be found. It's the RAS-like "reasonable to believe" that evidence of the crime will be discovered.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested b... by tedunangst on Thursday July 10, 2014 @06:33PM (#8017775)
ok, that's a little weird. I got a ticket once for cutting through a park after dark. I would never have considered that being arrested, but hurray, today I learned I'm part of the 40%. I have also received a ticket for speeding, which all things considered, was a more serious offense/penalty. It's weird that the speeding ticket is excluded but not the walking ticket.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested b... by vidarh on Thursday July 10, 2014 @07:20PM (#8017949)
To me the more bizarre thing is that there is such a thing as getting a ticket for walking through a park after dark. WTF...
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested b... by steveklabnik on Thursday July 10, 2014 @08:27PM (#8018230)
http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/san-francisco-parks-c...

:/

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested b... by smackfu on Thursday July 10, 2014 @05:33PM (#8017480)
This survey is based on interviewing people, not on arrest statistics, so if you think you were arrested, it counts as an arrest.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested b... by anigbrowl on Thursday July 10, 2014 @05:37PM (#8017503)
Are you sure you were arrested? It sounds like you were not actually placed into custody, eg cuffed and in the back of a police car. You may have been detained rather than arrested, not withstanding the issuance of a ticket.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested b... by nmrm on Thursday July 10, 2014 @05:34PM (#8017483)
It doesn't sound like you were actually arrested...
[ Parent | on HN ]