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Re:Coelacanth: Lessons from Doom (2010) by endgame on Monday June 30, 2014 @08:00PM (#7968449)
The Serious Sam games fit the DooM tradition, as well.
Re:Coelacanth: Lessons from Doom (2010) by moshR on Tuesday July 01, 2014 @12:48AM (#7969199)
I wholeheartedly agree. I love Painkiller as well, but it (the original, at least) never quite got "maneuverability as defense" right in my opinion. I think one reason for this is the integration with the Havok physics engine. The character would often become stalled on debris from broken crates, vases, etc. Stairs were also an issue.

If anyone else is into these kinds of shooters, and wants to try more recent titles, I also highly recommend both Hard Reset (2011) and Shadow Warrior (2013) by Flying Wild Hog. I believe some of the developers were part of the original Painkiller team.

Re:Coelacanth: Lessons from Doom (2010) by Jehar on Tuesday July 01, 2014 @02:12PM (#7972489)
There is a critical gap between the sensibilities of Doom/Quake/Duke and Painkiller/Serious Sam: level flow. The latter camp is in varying degrees a series of rooms you get locked into as enemies spawn in waves. The former involves navigating a highly varied environment as you attract the attention of pre-existing enemies.

Sure, on the avatar scale, they play at a similar level. The environments are what really set the earlier generation apart, and in that respect very little approaches that sort of design.

Re:Coelacanth: Lessons from Doom (2010) by Mithaldu on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @04:07AM (#7975751)
Painkiller sometimes does that, but other times it gives you levels like Docks, where as much vertical traversal is expected as horizontal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-0yJ2V41Jk
Re:Coelacanth: Lessons from Doom (2010) by Jehar on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @11:18AM (#7977452)
I'll happily agree that Painkiller has some more variation then SS, but on the whole it's much more focused with wave-based arenas. This isn't a knock against Painkiller at all, it's a favorite of mine - yet it's still a bit inaccurate to regard it as classical level design.
Re:Coelacanth: Lessons from Doom (2010) by Mithaldu on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @01:10PM (#7978143)
Yeah, you're right. I went and watched the entire video and while they hide it well by having really big arenas, it's still just kill rooms.
Re:Coelacanth: Lessons from Doom (2010) by aeflash on Monday June 30, 2014 @09:22PM (#7968710)
Serious Sam can't compete on level design and art direction, though.
Re:Coelacanth: Lessons from Doom (2010) by bitwize on Monday June 30, 2014 @08:29PM (#7968566)
As do the Tribes games with their "skiing" mechanic.
Re:Coelacanth: Lessons from Doom (2010) by Rolpa on Monday June 30, 2014 @08:03PM (#7968459)
There's also numerous open source examples. (See Cube/Cube 2)