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Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by untog on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @10:35AM (#7944117)
Aereo's setup is absurd. Placing hundreds if not thousands of identical antennas on a rooftop, capturing identical signals and sending them, individually, to users.

That's expensive and inefficient. The only reason they did it was to exploit a potential loophole in the current law - and now the Supreme Court has effectively closed that loophole.

Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by cheez0r on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @10:52AM (#7944272)
Yes- they are renting me an antenna in the locale the performance is being broadcast, and providing connectivity to that antenna. That is not a loophole- that is the letter of the law- that an individual can receive a broadcast performance of a work, but that it cannot be duplicated. It meets the letter of the law- unlike a system that received the broadcast signal, captured it, and provided the same copy to many users, which would violate the 'public performance' section of the law. Renting me an antenna makes it my individual private antenna, removing the public aspect of the performance, and making it perfectly legal.
Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by untog on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @10:58AM (#7944335)
It's the letter of a law written in the 1970s, when streaming technology like this didn't exist. No-one had even conceived of the idea that you would group hundreds of antennas together and stream them across a wide area network to users.

The spirit of the law as passed was to stop cable companies capturing and rebroadcasting over-the-air TV signals without compensation. So it shouldn't be too surprising that the Supreme Court made the judgement they did.

It's quite simple: when this law was created, was Aereo's use case considered? If the answer is 'no', then you can expect the law to be refined to cover it at a later date. Odd legal loopholes don't get to stand just because they've been around for a while.

Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by danielrhodes on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @11:20AM (#7944490)
To add to this, they didn't see a distinction between transmitting and performance, and felt the law was clear about the distinction between the role of the viewer and the performer. What was made clear was that one person could not hold both roles.

On if such a performance was private or public: the decision said that it was a moot point as the "commercial objective" of Aereo was the same as if it were public. The law as it stands did not intend to separate private and public performances.

Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by bediger4000 on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @11:09AM (#7944417)
Oh, goody! Do we all now get to apply that type of reasoning to all laws? The CFAA of 1986 is a good one to apply it to, don't you think?

Also, how about applying the spirit of the Statute of Queen Anne. Wouldn't like that one, I'm thinking.

"Spirit of the Law" - humbug.

Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by untog on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @11:14AM (#7944451)
Do we all now get to apply that type of reasoning to all laws?

We don't, no. The Supreme Court does, however.

Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by danielweber on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @11:18AM (#7944472)
"Oh, the law says no cars in the park but I'm driving my pick-up truck through the park! Ha ha, I win, I talked the computer to death like Kirk did on Star Track!1"
Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by pbreit on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @10:41AM (#7944171)
That's odd reasoning. It sounds like you are saying that any conformance to the law is somehow exploiting a loophole.
Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by untog on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @10:50AM (#7944255)
Not really. There's such a thing as the "spirit" of a law, and the technical details of a law.

The intention of the changes to the Copyright Act (which Shivetya has detailed better than I can[1]) was to stop basically what Aereo is doing, albeit back in the 1970s with cable companies. The legalese reflected the technology of the time. Aereo found a technical loophole that allowed them to continue to do it, but all the while they were violating the spirit of the law.

Which is, of course, legal. Until it isn't.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7944081

Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by pbreit on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @02:12PM (#7945737)
I don't think "technical loophole" is the best description. They were trying to make the case that they were providing a long antenna cord which is at least sorta reasonable (and something the cable companies could not claim).

Antennas are legal. Manipulating airwaves to be played on a TV is legal. Long antenna cables are legal. Putting an antenna on my neighbor's roof is legal. Paying my neighbor rent for such a thing is legal. Storing broadcast content is legal. Paying for devices to do such a thing is legal.

Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by Dylan16807 on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @07:55PM (#7947432)
And breaking down a cable company in the same way works consistently too. Antennas are legal, long cables are legal, paying your neighbor to set things up is legal, sharing an antenna with your neighbor is not legal.
Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by davorak on Thursday June 26, 2014 @10:45PM (#7952547)
My vague understanding of the sprit of the law that allowed broadcasters use of the public airwaves was that it required for the individuals to be able to make use of the transmissions.

Aero by many is seen as a tool to make use of those transmission on public air waves therefore in the sprit of the law.

Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by snowwrestler on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @10:51AM (#7944264)
Now we know that it was not actually conforming to the law.
Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by djb_hackernews on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @10:45AM (#7944207)
It's called scaling horizontally, and pretty much every company that cares about service availability does it. Is that really your argument?
Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by untog on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @10:48AM (#7944236)
It isn't scaling horizontally at all. You scale horizontally to increase your capacity, installing one antenna for every user has zero to do with capacity and everything to do with legality.
Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by djb_hackernews on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @10:58AM (#7944333)
I maintain that having a multiple of identical components in a system that perform the same duty is horizontal scaling. There are many reasons to scale horizontally, and I'd say increasing capacity is exactly what Aero would be interested in, not to mention fault tolerance. My career is based on building distributed fault tolerant systems, which is potentially why I think I understand their approach differently than you do.

But yes, horizontally scaling systems comes at a cost, sometimes they are more inefficient, sometimes they cost more, but in the long run if it helps you meet the goals of the business it shouldn't be illegal.

Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by untog on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @11:04AM (#7944380)
Their approach was not to create a distributed fault tolerant system (but boy am I glad I'm talking to someone with such expertise with them) - it might have been a neat side effect of what they did, but it wasn't the reason for doing it.

They said themselves that the reason each user has an antenna is because it was what allowed them to legally operate. Their hardware setup was entirely based around a loophole in existing law. Ironically, it's awful horizontal scaling, too - if a single antenna breaks there is no backup, the user assigned to it loses their TV signal.

Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by jack-r-abbit on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @12:19PM (#7944905)
They give two antennas for each user (one for live stream and one for DVR). And since they were still adding new users, it is reasonable to think that they had, at any given time, more pairs of antennas than current customers. If one antenna failed, I imagine they had a backup one they could switch to.
Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by ProAm on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @10:51AM (#7944258)
Don't their antenna's cost 10 cents or something really cheap like that?
Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by joezydeco on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @12:21PM (#7944923)
The antenna is cheap, but that's not the whole cost. You need the 8VSB reception stage, and then a slice of a server to transcode that 8VSB into H.264 or whatever format they chose. Then you also need disk space for the DVR stuff.

It's not the array of antennas that boggled me the most, it was the racks and racks of servers encoding the exact same show hundreds or thousands of times in parallel.

Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by evan_ on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @11:19AM (#7944478)
They look like unbent paperclips sticking out of a pcb.