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Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by Alupis on Tuesday June 24, 2014 @05:46PM (#7940864)
I really amazes me, that Linux is so darn flexible that it runs on some of the world's largest machines, down to the smallest embedded devices.

After years of being a Windows fanboy -- I look back now and am very glad I made the switch. With Linux -- it's never a case of "you can't do that".

Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by TallGuyShort on Tuesday June 24, 2014 @05:55PM (#7940913)
What I think is more amazing is that with the exception of the 2 Windows systems, EVERYTHING is either AIX UNIX or Linux, or a combination. UNIX started as a "microcomputer" OS, but it really has proven to be incredibly flexible. Personally, I think the ideas that have come out of the Solaris and BSD communities are invaluable and I always like to see them included in projects - I'm a little disappointed they have lost favor in the HPC community. They are similar enough to Linux and other UNIX-like OSs that targeting all of them is relatively practical in most cases, and users will find similar interfaces everywhere, but their ideas, communities and approaches are different enough that I think they would prevent it from being a monoculture.
Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by _delirium on Tuesday June 24, 2014 @07:27PM (#7941354)
One of the things that imo has pushed some of the other Unixes out of HPC is the move to using cluster file systems. Any Unix supports a traditional NFS-mounted NAS solution for storage, as used to be typical in HPC clusters (and still is fairly common in smaller installations at universities). But only AIX and Linux really have solid cluster filesystems; there's nothing in the BSD world analogous to IBM GPFS, or to Lustre, and porting is nontrivial.
Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by TallGuyShort on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @11:47AM (#7944676)
I think you're right. DragonflyBSD probably isn't widely used enough to be trusted by high-budget HPC projects anyway, but I was under the impression their HAMMER filesystem was a cluster file system. Looking at the website now I can't seem to find support for that, though...
Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by _delirium on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @06:15PM (#7947069)
It's one of DragonFly's goals, but afaik the clustering support is scheduled for the HAMMER2 rewrite that's still in progress: http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/mailarchive/users/2012-02/msg00...
Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by kjs3 on Tuesday June 24, 2014 @10:01PM (#7941863)
> UNIX started as a "microcomputer" OS

One very minor nit...the PDP-7 where Unix started out cost US$72k+ in 1969 dollars. Nothing compared to the big iron of the day, but very far from a microcomputer (and, really, that market didn't exist until 1972 or so).

Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by hga on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @11:46AM (#7944669)
And as far as capabilities go, the PDP-7 could address 64K of 18 bit words, more than double 1st generation microcomputers (those prior to the IBM PC and Apple Macintosh). Then again, I don't think it's generally known how much (very expensive, hand made) core memory was on that first UNIX(TM) PDP-7.

Maybe not that much, it next moved to the first model of the PDP-11, which had a max of 56 KiB memory of 8 bit bytes. Then to an 11/45, which could do 64 KiB of code, 56 KiB of data and 8 KiB of stack.

Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by kjs3 on Friday June 27, 2014 @02:09AM (#7952902)
The 11/45 has a 16-bit address space optionally expanded to 18-bits with an MMU so could do 256KB of memory. With the MMU, you could take advantage of split instruction and data memory, which gave a pair of 64k address spaces mapped into the 18-bit space.

No PDP-11 AFAIK have a separate, dedicated stack space. You're thinking of the 8k dedicated I/O page.

Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by hga on Friday June 27, 2014 @08:48AM (#7953712)
Ah, yes, for the 11/45 I was referring to what a single program could do.

However, as I recall (from the very early '80s when I was using both a 11/44 and 11/45), the MMU had a 8 KiB page size, so the natural thing to do was to divide the data as described, so a stack overflow would trigger a trap. Although after a bit of time with Google, I note the 11/40 manual says all PDP-11s have a location in which to put a stack boundary, so maybe that was a convention which matched what the MMU could do.

Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by hadrianoliveira on Tuesday June 24, 2014 @06:06PM (#7940966)
It also really amazes me how vendors make crappy drivers for linux compared to windows
Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by Alupis on Tuesday June 24, 2014 @06:14PM (#7940996)
This is not really true anymore.

About 99% of all devices "just work" out of the box, the other 1% either are very obscure/specialty hardware, or are new hardware. Linux doesn't need a vendor to support Linux like it used to... most generic drivers are built in and work OK (just like the generic drivers built into Windows now-a-days).

Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by adamors on Tuesday June 24, 2014 @06:52PM (#7941206)
> About 99% of all devices "just work" out of the box, the other 1% either are very obscure/specialty hardware, or are new hardware

Well if you count most GPUs under speciality hardware then I guess you're right, but most people don't. And most linux GPU drivers still pale in comparison to their Windows versions.

Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by eslaught on Tuesday June 24, 2014 @08:35PM (#7941578)
Actually I would think GPUs are one of the biggest counterexamples where driver support has been noticeably improving recently (mostly thanks to Valve and Steam). Even the open source drivers work well enough to let you get work done (although the performance might not be where you want it to be).

Compare that to driver support for things like the fingerprint reader in a Lenovo Thinkpad. I wouldn't want to bet on getting that working at all, unless Lenovo had preinstalled Linux for you. And unlike GPUs, this is likely to be all or nothing, so if you don't get the drivers you can't use that hardware feature at all.

Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by jnbiche on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @12:12AM (#7942198)
Actually, there are both closed and open source drivers for Thinkpad fingerprint readers. The open source ones are even well-maintained:

https://launchpad.net/~fingerprint/+archive/fingerprint-gui

Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by eslaught on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @12:19AM (#7942216)
Aha! Good to be proven wrong there.
Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by pizza234 on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @05:19AM (#7942925)
While to say that all Linux drivers are crappy is false, it's as much as false the (almost) opposite.

In Linux, I always have problems with devices, in one way or another (specifically Ubuntu, but I think it's fairly representing the concept), both for new things, old things, not-so-new things, obscure things, etc. etc.

To complicate the problem, drivers fit in stacks that may interact in unexpectedly broken ways. This means that say, a wireless audio adapter, may work only 50% of the times it's connected. I was using Windows long ago, and I don't remember this category of things happening (I guess because there are only a few Windows).

So, certainly they work "OK", but one needs to be quite flexible on what OK means. I've got two machines which are not so arcane, and I have at least 4, hardware-related (not stack-related), open bugs.

Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by hereonbusiness on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @06:47AM (#7943169)
That is true in my experience, sooner or later you are going to run into a silly driver related problem with linux. Right now I'm having problems with the integrated Intel soundcard in my laptop. Using Xubuntu 10.10/Fedora 16 there never was any problem with it, ever since then it sometimes won't output to the speakers but I always get sound on the headphone jack. But it's mostly those peripheral things at least for me, the system as whole usually works pretty well.

Thing is, Linux is much more enjoyable to use for software development and deployment, development on Windows makes me feel like a second class citizen, the OS to me feels much more oriented towards the exclusive consumer, especially now with the new (metro) tablet like user interface.

Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by GFK_of_xmaspast on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @02:31AM (#7942559)
I upgraded to ubuntu 14.04 on my reasonably late-model desktop from a major name and now my nvidia graphics card doesn't cause the x server to segfault and send me back to a login prompt when rendering certain fonts, but now my keyboard stops working after screen lock about 10% of the time and sometimes half the usb ports will shut down for no reason at all.

This is a little better then when I was hand-editing x configs back in the 90s but overall I'm disappointed.

Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by girvo on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @03:49AM (#7942711)
Gosh, I see so many people having issues like this... and get really confused, because I've ran Linux on my laptops for the past 4 years, and they've all worked completely out of the box with whatever version of Ubuntu was the latest at the time! And I don't go out of my way to pick a laptop that supports Linux, I just buy whichever fit my requirements the best.

Of course, now I'm just using a rMBP, but yeah, I wonder if I've just been very lucky?

Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by metaobject on Tuesday June 24, 2014 @09:16PM (#7941712)
I still can't fully utilize the nvidia Optimus gfx card under Linux. I've tried the bumblebee project and other suggestions I've found through google, but I'm still stuck with minimal capability. I hear that the latest stable release of ubuntu (14.04?) has added more support for it, so maybe that will work for me.
Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by kiram9 on Tuesday June 24, 2014 @11:47PM (#7942133)
my optimus card in my w520 works perfectly in 14.04 - and there are task bar widgets for switching now (logout required). After installing 14.04 my external monitors and display switching work perfectly! I was really happy as I was stuck with a non functional gfx card in linux for a few years and now it finally works.
Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by jeangenie on Tuesday June 24, 2014 @08:34PM (#7941576)
For some users, of course, that 1% is all that matters (see Chromebook complaints). I don't find that a very compelling reason to seek out patent encumbered OSes but to each their own.
Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by sp332 on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @09:13AM (#7943651)
About 99% of all devices "just work" out of the box

This high number is due to kernel programmers writing device drivers, since not so many manufacturers write linux drivers themselves.

Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by millstone on Tuesday June 24, 2014 @07:33PM (#7941380)
I was given a free Chromebox (Samsung "Series 3"), and I tried to install Linux on it. It didn't work at all, apparently because the Chromebox doesn't support "legacy boot," whatever that is. I tried Crouton and Chrubuntu in turn, and found that sound didn't work in the first case, and that the kernel was not upgradeable.

I gave up and I bought a PC (Intel NUC). I was able to install Linux on it, but it failed to boot. I then found a BIOS update, and managed to get it installed (not a trivial task). After that my NUC worked well, except for the IR port, which required additional driver hunting.

Sadly, we're still a long ways from "it just works." The NUC didn't support Linux out of the box, even though it ships without an OS!

Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by jyu78 on Tuesday June 24, 2014 @07:45PM (#7941415)
You are describing customized devices which are build for a specific OS. Windows and MacOS don't work well on Chromeboxs either.

Also to my knowledge all modern Chrome devices have Coreboot support which enable "legacy" bootloaders and will boot any distro like a normal laptop. Older models like the C710 have unofficial Coreboot builds which allow the same (and linux driver support on modern distros).

Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by alephnil on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @08:37AM (#7943508)
That is not really the case for supercomputers though. Here Linux drivers obviously have first priority.

If you are thinking of video driver it is a totally different story.

Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by ckaygusu on Tuesday June 24, 2014 @06:09PM (#7940972)
Seconded. I wonder if Microsoft aggresively pays people to not to develop drivers for other operating systems.
Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by kcbanner on Tuesday June 24, 2014 @06:21PM (#7941038)
I think that would be pretty anticompetitive.
Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by nitrogen on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @02:57AM (#7942621)
They do have a bit of history with "anticompetitive".
Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by _broody on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @12:08AM (#7942193)
Then again, the big tech players are hardly good sports.
Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by venomsnake on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @07:29AM (#7943299)
Except you "can't play your game library". Lets hope for some really good compat layer from valve.
Re:Linux dominates supercomputers as never before by Alupis on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @02:19PM (#7945790)
Well, Valve already has ToGL, a DirectX2OpenGL abstraction layer... so that is already happening. Also, SteamOS (and Steam on Linux) now has low latency Streaming from your Windows pc to your Linux PC, SteamOS/SteamBox on your TV, etc.

So, in large part, just about all games are now playable on Linux, and more are coming as developers re-release games on Linux, or as many big AAA studios have committed to releasing all future games on linux as well (Crytek, Valve, Unreal, Firaxis Game, etc etc... there are a lot and more coming!)