News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Things You Love are Made with Code by colmvp on Friday June 20, 2014 @02:19PM (#7921973)
I'm curious, are there growing initiatives to make every career gender/race balanced? Because it seems like we're fixated on getting female representation in computer/mathematical occupations from 26.1% to 50%. Yet there are lot other occupations which have pretty low representations, i.e. only 1.6% of architects are black, 0.1% of judges/magistrates are Asian, only 1.8% of automotive repairers are women, only 5.2% of truck drivers are women, 19.7% of social workers are men, 5.2% of childcare workers are men, 3.8% of physicians/surgeons are Hispanic, etc.
Re:Things You Love are Made with Code by jiggy2011 on Friday June 20, 2014 @02:51PM (#7922198)
If we have more women in STEM then we must have less men in STEM unless we grow the total number of STEM jobs by the same amount.

So those men who would otherwise be in STEM must move to other professions, which means they either move into other male dominated professions and make them even more unbalanced or there must be an equivalent push to move them into a female dominated industry.

If we do the latter then a possible outcome is a system where we are allocating people to jobs based primarily on demographics rather than interest or aptitude.

Re:Things You Love are Made with Code by mrgn on Friday June 20, 2014 @03:04PM (#7922281)
Diversity isn't a zero sum game. STEM is one of the fastest growing professional fields, meaning more people--of any gender--will need to fill those jobs.

The goal is gender balance, there's no need to fear that a woman or a person of color accepting a newly created STEM job will somehow push a white man out of his existing position. Let's be realistic here.

Re:Things You Love are Made with Code by jiggy2011 on Friday June 20, 2014 @03:14PM (#7922337)
Perhaps, but I could take these arguments more seriously if western countries weren't so excited about issuing more visas for tech workers. It's also possible that we have a tech bubble that people are wisely avoiding.
Re:Things You Love are Made with Code by mrgn on Friday June 20, 2014 @03:37PM (#7922461)
For that to make sense you'd really have to believe that the US will need fewer, not more, STEM jobs in the future. The vast majority of educated STEM workers and engineers are completely removed from venture-funded Silicon Valley startups and any potential 'tech bubble.'
Re:Things You Love are Made with Code by jiggy2011 on Friday June 20, 2014 @03:46PM (#7922495)
It depends on what ratio you seek and what growth you think you will get. For example if you aim for a 50% gender split but only get 10% growth.
Re:Things You Love are Made with Code by martythemaniak on Friday June 20, 2014 @02:56PM (#7922229)
One thing I haven't seen explicitly stated in this whole debate is that workplace diversity is very much a zero-sum game. If Google / Tech Sector / Random subgroup of the economy is to be representative of the population, those workers have to come from some other equality lop-sided subgroup.

There are structural issues which can cause the workforce as a whole to not be representative of the population - lack of opportunities for poorer people / minorities or lower participation by women due to child-rearing, etc. Even after accounting for those,

I do appreciate the sentiment and effort, but most of what I've seen is empty belly-aching.

Re:Things You Love are Made with Code by mrgn on Friday June 20, 2014 @03:00PM (#7922251)
No, and the answer why should be blindingly obvious to any intelligent person: computer engineering (as opposed to your chosen examples of truck driving childcare, and auto repair) is among the most well-paid, economically influential, and entrepreneurial profession today, and will become increasingly so in the future. Gender and race representation is simply of less concern for less aspirational, lower-paid professions that do not require extensive education or access to technical resources.
Re:Things You Love are Made with Code by adamnemecek on Friday June 20, 2014 @03:01PM (#7922264)
So it's about equality and equal gender representation only in well paying professions? Doesn't sound all that equal to me.
Re:Things You Love are Made with Code by mrgn on Friday June 20, 2014 @03:27PM (#7922405)
Perhaps you didn't read closely, but the fact that computer engineering is a well-paid profession is only a result of its demand, influence and importance to the future economy. Devoting equal time and resources encouraging people to abandon higher education in order to pursue unskilled labor may sound like "equality" to you, but hardly seems like a sound strategy for the economy or any industry.
Re:Things You Love are Made with Code by adamnemecek on Friday June 20, 2014 @03:36PM (#7922452)
Well but all these initiatives are not so much about encouraging all people, but mostly women it appears.
Re:Things You Love are Made with Code by Dewie on Friday June 20, 2014 @03:10PM (#7922308)
> Gender and race representation is simply of less concern for less aspirational, lower-paid professions that do not require extensive education or access to technical resources.

This comes off as classist, to me. I have had the impression that promoting equality and diversity in certain professions is partly motivated by a want to make more people feel welcome in the profession. That is, for minorities and such that already work in the profession to have a good work environment.

Re:Things You Love are Made with Code by enraged_camel on Friday June 20, 2014 @03:01PM (#7922263)
This is exactly it. When people say shit like, "why aren't we encouraging women to become garbage collectors because that profession is entirely male dominated" they just demonstrate that they haven't thought about the issue thoroughly and they think gender balance is something to aspire towards just for its own sake.

edit: Thanks for the downvotes. I must have hit a sensitive spot.

Re:Things You Love are Made with Code by bennyg on Friday June 20, 2014 @02:33PM (#7922072)
It may not be socially acceptable to ask these questions but I wonder the same thing fairly frequently.
Re:Things You Love are Made with Code by skybrian on Friday June 20, 2014 @02:33PM (#7922075)
Well hopefully there are, but that's up to the people in those professions.
Re:Things You Love are Made with Code by DanBC on Friday June 20, 2014 @04:48PM (#7922794)
Yes, there are programs to make other occupations diverse. This point has been made very many times on HN before -- every time a thread like this happens someone will make exactly the same point as you.

I'm surprised that you managed to get statistics about the disparities without also finding information about the various programs to increase diversity. They need to publicise those better.

Re:Things You Love are Made with Code by tieTYT on Friday June 20, 2014 @02:55PM (#7922224)
Where'd you get these numbers?
Re:Things You Love are Made with Code by adamnemecek on Friday June 20, 2014 @03:00PM (#7922254)
I'm guessing Bureau of Labor Statistics.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.pdf