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Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by jack-r-abbit on Thursday May 29, 2014 @06:34PM (#7819050)
I'm not rich or single so I am really not the target market here. But something about this feels really gross. I can't figure out how this was allowed. I've lost all sense of what is and isn't acceptable these days. It seems to change daily. It feels like not too long ago a couple guys lost their job for making a joke about dongles and forking. I fail to see how that was worse than this.
Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by rayiner on Thursday May 29, 2014 @06:54PM (#7819140)
> But something about this feels really gross. I can't figure out how this was allowed. I've lost all sense of what is and isn't acceptable these days.

My slow path to conservatism.

Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by pessimizer on Thursday May 29, 2014 @07:52PM (#7819342)
Paid matchmakers and arranged marriages based on financial considerations are conservative.
Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by mikeash on Thursday May 29, 2014 @07:01PM (#7819162)
Solve the problem by making the list of acceptable behavior so small that you can remember it?
Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by MarkPNeyer on Thursday May 29, 2014 @07:24PM (#7819236)
Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by mikeash on Thursday May 29, 2014 @07:48PM (#7819326)
I thought you were joking (and maybe you are) but now that I think about it, that's a really good life philosophy. Tolerate behavior in others beyond what you would engage in yourself.

Of course, this works better for social conventions like "call me by my last name" or "pay for your date's dinner" than for stuff like "don't be gay", which is sadly what's more associated with conservatism in this country.

Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by pessimizer on Thursday May 29, 2014 @08:31PM (#7819480)
That's how I try to operate. Everybody should get a break but me. There's a word for giving yourself a break for bad behavior: rationalization.
Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by pooper on Thursday May 29, 2014 @07:22PM (#7819231)
I can't tell if you are being serious but it can't be a white list. We'll have too many false positives.
Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by dctoedt on Friday May 30, 2014 @06:59AM (#7821111)
> My slow path to conservatism.

If you mean conservatism of the political kind, come live in Texas for awhile to get a taste of life in a conservative state; you're likely to reconsider how far you want to go down that path. I'm a lifelong Republican and always thought of myself as fairly conservative; in recent years, though, mainly because of the Tea Party -- and the life lessons learned from the challenges of, e.g., raising two kids to adulthood -- I've probably voted for Democrats almost as often as for Republicans. I have Republican friends who are so disenchanted that they've talked about switching parties.

Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by tptacek on Friday May 30, 2014 @08:13AM (#7821303)
Or alcoholism.
Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by parennoob on Thursday May 29, 2014 @07:10PM (#7819191)
> It feels like not too long ago a couple guys lost their job for making a joke about dongles and forking. I fail to see how that was worse than this.

That was Joe Schmoe male developer, who it is acceptable to fire for the slightest of reasons, including making an innocuous joke that wouldn't be out of place in a K-12 classroom. The men who are the customers of this startup are the rich guys in Silicon Valley who are awash in cash and cannot be fired.

The two are worlds apart, don't be under any impression that they mix in any sense whatsoever. Unfortunately, the first group (Joe Schmoe) is squeezed to the max by policing by interest groups like "Geek Feminism" and suchlike. Notably, Geek Feminism seems to have a neutral/positive approach to this Dating Ring thing (http://geekfeminism.org/2013/12/30/happy-new-linkspam-30-dec...) -- the company is referred to as "Y Combinator's first all-female company", and no negative comments.

Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by groby_b on Thursday May 29, 2014 @08:06PM (#7819394)
Really? There's a interest police out to get all the poor guys? Or maybe, just maybe, it's time for guys to learn that women should be treated with respect. (And obviously vice versa, before that gets rolled out). Sexual innuendo does not qualify as respect. It certainly doesn't belong in a K-12 classroom.

As for your "evidence" from GeekFeminism, you will note that that's a linkspam page, merely linking and quoting, without any commentary. And the quote is not about The Dating Ring, but about the changes that are necessary for the industry to become more diversified. (Yes, there's a lot of irony in this coming from the women who're responsible for this bride-for-sale scheme)

Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by ufmace on Thursday May 29, 2014 @10:59PM (#7819999)
I remember the case he mentioned well enough. As I remember, 2 male developers were making some perhaps tasteless jokes to each other, not referencing anyone in particular. A woman seated nearby, whose job is outreach to developers like them, overheard, and decided that it would be a good idea to take a picture of them, without their permission, of course, and call them out on the internet about it. A standard gender in tech scandal ensued.

Sounds a lot more like an interest police out to get guys than anything to do with respect for women to me.

Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by parennoob on Thursday May 29, 2014 @11:12PM (#7820038)
> Sexual innuendo does not qualify as respect.

This has been rehashed aplenty. Sexual innuendo between two people, when not directed at a third person does not qualify as disrespect to the third person, unless you're trying very hard to feel disrespected.

> It certainly doesn't belong in a K-12 classroom.

If you think it doesn't belong in a K-12 classroom, I seriously doubt you have ever interacted with anyone in high school. Please read the data in this and draw your own conclusions. http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/FB-ATSRH.html

Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by groby_b on Thursday May 29, 2014 @11:49PM (#7820170)
If I were to say that "you're ${INSULT}" when you can't hear me, is that not disrespecting you? If I close all my HN posts with "parenoob is ${INSULT}", is that not disrespecting you? Or, to stick with the 2-people restriction, if I closed all my direct e-mails with that statement?

The answer should be fairly obvious.

As for point 2, the fact that teens are currently taught to be sexist doesn't mean they should be taught to be sexist, or that it's OK. Especially not from adults.

Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by boling11 on Friday May 30, 2014 @12:57AM (#7820345)
In your example, the insult is clearly directed at the third person/party. This isn't at all contradictory (or relevant) to what he's saying.
Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by frostmatthew on Thursday May 29, 2014 @08:02PM (#7819382)
> The men who are the customers of this startup are the rich guys in Silicon Valley who are awash in cash and cannot be fired.

I'm guessing you missed the news over the last couple months of GitHub[1] and Rap Genius[2] each letting a co-founder go?

[1] https://github.com/blog/1826-follow-up-to-the-investigation-...

[2] http://recode.net/2014/05/26/rap-genius-co-founder-moghadam-...

Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by parennoob on Thursday May 29, 2014 @11:16PM (#7820057)
This doesn't change the fact that those two are still awash in cash. They could easily be part of the rich guys in this program and this Dating Ring thing would welcome them with open arms.

Meanwhile, Joe Dev who is working 10 hours a day will be fired for saying "Hee hee hee, look at this huge dongle I just got." at a tech conference.

Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by argumentum on Thursday May 29, 2014 @06:52PM (#7819133)
> I can't figure out how this was allowed

Why wouldn't this "be allowed"? More importantly, what is the entity that would or would not be doing the "allowing"?

Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by sciguy77 on Thursday May 29, 2014 @07:08PM (#7819186)
I think he means "tolerated by the public/any reasonable readership." Several articles come to mind (particularly an op ed about gender roles from Fox News some two years ago) in which readers become outraged by something they've read. This is usually followed by a flurry of other articles in which the offensive piece in question is condemned. I think he means "how are people not more disturbed by this piece." Though perhaps OP can weigh in and explain it better.
Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by jack-r-abbit on Thursday May 29, 2014 @07:15PM (#7819211)
Yes. I didn't mean "allowed" as in some governing body handed down a decision to allow it. I've seen huge uproar over (what I see as) pretty minor things compared to this. Yet this seems to have rolled on happy without that. I don't like to use the F-word (feminist) but how are they managing to not explode in anger over this. I truly don't get it.
Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by argumentum on Thursday May 29, 2014 @07:42PM (#7819301)
What specifically do you find offensive about this? All the participants (male & female, consumers and company) are willing and eager.

I don't necessarily agree with firing people over politically incorrect jokes either, but in this case there is no party that is potentially suffering damages. I.e. in the case of misogynist jokes by an employee, the company may believe it's reputation would suffer unless mitigating action was taken.

There is no analog here ..

Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by larrys on Thursday May 29, 2014 @07:41PM (#7819294)
Two possibilities.

They either don't know about it or they don't care.

For further thought by someone "who doesn't see the problem" (me) read my other comment.

Feel free to reply to that and let me know what you think about what I have said. I think it's a practical solution to a problem.

Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by viraptor on Thursday May 29, 2014 @07:44PM (#7819307)
Ignoring the first emotional reaction... what's actually gross about it. Sure, I wouldn't want the whole society to be based on a mail order bride model, and the whole thing sounds like Breakfast at Tiffany's, but wrong/gross? I don't think so. There was only one actually wrong part that was mentioned as far as I can tell (inappropriate touching) which was dealt with. (was just ignoring it enough? I'll leave that to the author)

As long as the participants knew what they were getting into, I think it was fine - everyone got what they signed up for, no promises of results were given. (as far as I understand from the article)

Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by jobu on Thursday May 29, 2014 @07:06PM (#7819177)
This sounds more like the plot of a reality TV show than a y-combinator company. It's definitely exploiting people, and reading the article made me feel dirty and a little sad for society.
Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by RichardFord on Thursday May 29, 2014 @07:12PM (#7819198)
Really? It makes me a little sad when people that "aren't single and aren't the target market" think that things should be banned.

Society is really becoming very intolerant because people don't conform to their little bubbles.

Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by jack-r-abbit on Thursday May 29, 2014 @07:36PM (#7819280)
Well... I never said it should be banned. I am actually a pretty tolerant person. It just feels gross to me. I was more curious how it was allowed to happen at a time when lots of people are working hard to make tech a more inviting place for women. I don't think this is helping. Admittedly, I know this is not a tech recruiting ring... these women don't sound like they're on a path to be in tech. They just want to date a techie. But if this isn't insulting to women in tech (all women? everyone in tech? everyone?) then I truly have lost all sense of acceptability. I probably should have picked a better word than "allowed."
Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by smsm42 on Thursday May 29, 2014 @09:13PM (#7819607)
Why can't it be allowed to happen? I mean, nobody as far as I can see was forced, coerced, deceived or tricked into doing something that they did not want to do. Some guys wanted to meet some females that have specific qualities, some females wanted to meet some guys that have specific qualities. Things like that happen - both in RL and on specialized sites - literally every second. Do you have to like it? No. There's a lot of things that people do that I don't like. However I would never imply that should not happen - apparently, there are a lot of people that do like doing those things, and as long as there are people willing to do this and nobody is hurt, it's their business, not mine. So I wonder - why exactly should not it happen?

>>> But if this isn't insulting to women in tech

Who is "women in tech"? It's not a person that you can insult. Why "women in tech" should have single opinion about anything and be - all of them, collectively - insulted by something? And why, if some woman or multiple women are insulted by this, we shouldn't wait for them to tell us if they are insulted and listen what they are insulted by, instead of trying to guess it and wield that imaginary insult as a weapon?

Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by sciguy77 on Thursday May 29, 2014 @07:36PM (#7819278)
I don't think he's saying, "I'm not the target market, therefore ban articles that aren't relevant to me." It seems far more likely that saying he wasn't the target market was more of a disclaimer. I would disagree that his post is "intolerant." OP believes the piece is sexist, which you may or many not agree with, but taking issues with perceived sexism doesn't strike me as intolerant. Out of curiosity, are you affiliated with the article? I couldn't help but notice your account was made a few minutes ago (HN highlights new accounts).
Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by RichardFord on Thursday May 29, 2014 @08:36PM (#7819499)
He wants the practice to not be allowed, not the article.

My point is just because he's not single and not the target market, he shouldn't be asking for a ban on a dating scheme.

I'm single and find the whole idea of "flying in women to meet geeks" to be a bit strange, but this idea that it should be banned is ludicrous.

There's too much "I don't like this" or "I don't understand this" so let's have some entity ban it.

I have nothing to do with whatever these people are doing.

Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by sharpasand on Thursday May 29, 2014 @09:16PM (#7819617)
where do you see the demand or even asking that this practice be banned or even disallowed ?
Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by jack-r-abbit on Friday May 30, 2014 @11:11AM (#7822197)
Dude... chill. I never said ban it. Please don't put words in my mouth.
Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by supercanuck on Thursday May 29, 2014 @07:17PM (#7819217)
Who is being exploited?
Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by Torgo on Thursday May 29, 2014 @07:07PM (#7819182)
This didn't happen in a "professional" setting like PyCon, for one thing.
Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by Dewie on Thursday May 29, 2014 @07:39PM (#7819292)
It's weird that people are punished for talking about dongles in a professional setting when dongles are a technical term relevant to their profession, and the context of the word is not a joke or innuendo unless there is some insinuating tone of voice to accompany that otherwise pretty innocuous comment.
Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by harryh on Thursday May 29, 2014 @11:29PM (#7820103)
Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by Dewie on Friday May 30, 2014 @04:04AM (#7820734)
Explain to me how that relates to dongle-gate?
Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by harryh on Friday May 30, 2014 @09:57AM (#7821790)
Words aren't just words. They have context.

Sometimes a dongle as an adapter. Sometimes it's a dick.

It's not hard to tell the difference.

Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by Dewie on Friday May 30, 2014 @04:25PM (#7823840)
Well that's my point. According to what I've heard about 'the incident', the statement could be interpreted to really just be about dongles in the relevant technical sense. And it was such a perfectly normal sentence that there were no clear signs of having deliberately tried to make a pun or something like that. So then you're just left with how the sentence was said, which we don't know much about (I think).

> It's not hard to tell the difference.

Perhaps, if you know that "dongle" is a technical term, and you don't take the sentence out of context (like overhearing only one sentence). Besides, many catch themselves in making unintentional puns and innuendos, only noticing after-the-fact that the sentence could be interpreted in another way. It surely isn't so unlikely that one can justify firing people point-blank when they do make such a mistake!

Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by sciguy77 on Thursday May 29, 2014 @07:04PM (#7819169)
I wish I could give this more up votes. I felt exactly the same way (though you put it more eloquently than I could).
Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by noobermin on Thursday May 29, 2014 @08:22PM (#7819457)
I guess I might be an amoral degenerate, because I found the beginning rather funny. As long as these are consenting adults (save the creepy touching on that one date), what's wrong? I think it was on second thought that I found the whole idea a bit strange, all of this money spent just to give a few tech men dates?
Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by ohyes on Friday May 30, 2014 @09:10AM (#7821526)
I think it's the level of cynicism required to execute on something like this. Not that I think this is bad or wrong, just a very cynical view of dating.
Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by chrismcb on Friday May 30, 2014 @02:00AM (#7820493)
Is it ok for a group of girls in City A to try to find a group of guys in City A? Like say through a speed dating meetup? But it is wrong if the girls are from City A and the guys are from City B? Especially when they claim City A has 2 girls for every guy, and City B has 3 guys for every 2 girls? What exactly is the issue?
Re:I got shipped to California to date tech guys by Dewie on Thursday May 29, 2014 @06:45PM (#7819104)
Maybe this is a dynamic that tends to emerge anyway, the only difference in this case being that it is direct and not subtle?