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Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by bitL on Thursday May 22, 2014 @07:47AM (#7783302)
I have a feeling that "being busy" is just a gentle form of crowd control. I could see it in Japan, people being terribly busy at work, yet producing very little, spending most of the time during the day at job, unable to do anything in their spare time. I guess that's how Asian society makes sure there is no unexpected creativity leading to "interesting times". It could also help individual people to cope with social anxieties by being "busy".

I wouldn't be surprised if the same were happening in the States. I don't believe people can be super-productive more than 5 hours a day unless they work on something they are passionate about or are on drugs.

From my experience, just walking away from a difficult problem, taking time to walk in the forest, relax on the beach, playing sports with friends, doing completely unrelated relaxing things with total focus often leads to sudden inspirations on how to tackle difficult problems. It's like life is telling me to relax and rewards me with great ideas that can be immediately executed, for being just well balanced.

I remember flying with one US businessman between Hawaiian islands, and he curiously asked me how many vacation days do I have - when I told him it's 6 weeks, he went on to complain about how crazy is it in the States, with average of 8.5 day or so of vacation per year.

People, please live your lives!

Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by JPKab on Thursday May 22, 2014 @09:24AM (#7783684)
I've noticed that a lot of the "busiest" people are the least productive. I suspect its a defense mechanism for people who, at least on a subconscious level, realize how unproductive and meaningless their job and/or output at a job really is.

My wife's sister and her husband are both the two "busiest" people you will ever meet. Yet when I spend time with them, I'm reminded of the fact that neither of them is very intelligent (perhaps the wrong word, but put another way they have no depth of understanding about anything outside of their jobs in cargo transport, zero creativity or appreciation of any kind of art, and little to zero knowledge of world events) and they don't seem to progress any quicker in their careers. In fact, as my wife has noted, they have lagged behind us and all of our friends who enjoy a healthy work-life balance. There is nothing scientific here about this anecdote, of course. I think that perhaps the easiest way to be extremely busy all the time is to not step back, take a breath, and think about a more efficient way to accomplish task X.

In a culture where status is attained through work, if you lack the creativity and skills to be a standout wizard who breezes through and builds cool shit that others think they could never do (translations: anyone on HN) then perhaps "busy" is the other way to earn some semblance of status.

Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by omilu on Friday May 23, 2014 @04:13PM (#7791096)
It may have something to do with their jobs in cargo transport. Making ends meet on a low paying, physically demanding job that probably has a long commute, and overtime, doesn't exactly leave lots of slack in the schedule to pursue anything much beyond taking care of chores and sleep. I know cause that was me in college.
Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by JPKab on Monday May 26, 2014 @10:50PM (#7802621)
The jobs are white collar in nature. They sit at desks and work on computers, dispatching freight.
Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by eshvk on Thursday May 22, 2014 @08:57PM (#7787494)
Good lord man. The arrogance and superiority complex that you have towards other human beings is breathtaking. I don't know you from heck but I feel the need to become more humble just to reduce the amount of dickishness in the world.
Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by JPKab on Friday May 23, 2014 @09:19AM (#7789173)
If you don't know me "from heck", then perhaps you should dial down the rhetoric before you assume I'm arrogant towards other human beings.

I used to be a construction worker. I know what arrogance towards human beings looks like because I experienced it every day by being looked at like an insect by every white collar asshole that walked by. I also know that my wife's sister and her husband didn't think I was good enough for her back then, but now that I make a decent salary they think I'm kosher. Fuck them.

Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by mreiland on Thursday May 22, 2014 @12:59PM (#7784837)
maybe you should stop judging your wife's sister and her husband, and/or start being as critical of yourselves as you are of them.
Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by JPKab on Friday May 23, 2014 @09:16AM (#7789156)
Perhaps I am judgmental towards them. Recently we had a big argument because they both saw nothing wrong with innocent people being wrongfully executed, and view it as a necessary evil to allow for guilty to be executed.

The fact that they both told my wife that they feel art is a waste of time and that artists should all find better things to do didn't help me view them as remotely on our level.

I'm very critical of myself. It is people who lack the capacity to be critical of themselves who act and think like they do. I am better than they are, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. I'm not better than them by anything given to me, but because I recognize that I suck and constantly seek to improve myself. They view themselves as amazing people. They aren't.

Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by mreiland on Friday May 23, 2014 @12:02PM (#7789904)
The arrogance of humility.
Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by rayiner on Thursday May 22, 2014 @09:02AM (#7783581)
> I don't believe people can be super-productive more than 5 hours a day unless they work on something they are passionate about or are on drugs.

I assume you're a software engineer? It's a particularly mentally intensive job, and I don't think your experience is easily generalizable. Jobs that don't require that level of creativity and where you can rely more on memorized processes are easier to do for extended periods of time. Say you're an insurance adjuster. Most of the claims that cross your desk are not unusual and do not require special handling. I bet you could do that productively for 8 hours a day.

Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by LaikaF on Thursday May 22, 2014 @11:42AM (#7784384)
I can very easily be productive for 8 hours at my second job at a beer distributer.

My other job doing email tech support I struggle to not take a five minute break every hour to clear my head. I still get bellow five hours a day of productivity because I have to sit in a ton of meetings on the off chance that I might need to say something or they just want more eyes on whatever they're doing.

Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by 0xdeadbeefbabe on Thursday May 22, 2014 @12:10PM (#7784535)
> It could also help individual people to cope with social anxieties by being "busy".

Yes, and sometimes meetings serve only this purpose. For example, oh I'm sorry Mr. X is in a meeting that he has scheduled for every time you call.

Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by tseabrooks on Thursday May 22, 2014 @08:28AM (#7783447)
Question on those 6 weeks. I've heard before that some countries include national holidays in there 5-6 week count. Is that the case here? Generally when Americans are listing their vacation days they are not including what they view as mandatory holidays (Memorial day, july 4th, thanksgiving, christmas, new years, etc).

FWIW, I'm in the US and we have ~5-6 weeks vacation.

Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by bitL on Thursday May 22, 2014 @08:35AM (#7783479)
I am currently in Germany, 6 weeks is basically a standard excluding holidays (which is up to 13 extra days depending on the state and weekend overlay as there are no bank holidays). So in the end you can end up with ~8 weeks. Minimum vacation days as specified by the law is 4 weeks.

Most of my friends in the US start with 2 weeks, after a few years they get 3 weeks, then these are reset if they change the job, and if they take a vacation, they are either frowned upon or they have to be available to work on a moments notice. I find this utterly crazy.

Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by pc86 on Thursday May 22, 2014 @11:32AM (#7784326)
I have not, nor have I ever met anyone who has, been expected to work or even be available on a vacation. I've also never taken or been offered a job with less than 3 weeks vacation to start. Current job (been here for 2 months) is 25 paid days off plus ten or so holidays. This seems to be a common criticism of the US but I've been in the professional workforce for just about a decade and have never come across this. I've worked remotely, for small companies with ten employees and Fortune 500 companies. I just don't believe there are people taking jobs where they get 10 days off a year and are expected to answer a phone call from their boss on vacation, unless they are 1) interns; 2) non-professional jobs, service industry, etc; 3) at the very beginning of their career (I could see this happening with more predatory employers with the huge number of unemployed recent grads looking for works).
Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by bpyne on Thursday May 22, 2014 @01:23PM (#7784973)
I think it depends on different factors. My wife has the same experience as you - never had less than 3 weeks of vacation time. She's a policy analyst in the non-profit sector. I've been in IT as a software developer for 20+ years and have been with 8 different employers across different industrial sectors and ranging from startup to Fortune 500. Most employer changes set me back to 2 weeks.

I know people who feel pressure to work on vacation. The pressure is very real and isn't always related to ambition on the part of those people. Usually they're being exploited by an ambitious manager who has a "hold" of some kind, e.g. exploited person has a child with 2 years left of college and can't afford to lose his/her job.

Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by bitL on Thursday May 22, 2014 @01:33PM (#7785036)
Well, 2 weeks were a starting offer from once the most valuable company on the planet for a senior SW engineer position in California, with automatic extension by 1 week after the first year, and another week after a promotion to a staff engineer.

One Seattle-based eCommerce company forced you to keep pager with you all the times, even on a vacation, if you were an unlucky part of operations.

This can't happen in most European countries, unless the company desperately wants to lose plenty of court cases.

One member of my US family in the midwest worked in an unionized menial job with 1 week of paid vacation including sick days. The rest was unpaid.

Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by AndyNemmity on Thursday May 22, 2014 @05:16PM (#7786608)
I was expected to work or be available on vacation the entire time I worked at a startup. Once the company was bought by a larger company, I received 5 weeks of vacation, that I still was required to be available and work.

Only after I left the unit I was in, was it respected that I was not to be contacted.

Edit: I'd also add I had to work all day on Christmas one year, and I know others in very similar situations.

Friends with a security engineer at a company everyone would know. He can't even get a normal work day right now, or a single day off in a week.

It certainly happens.

Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by alistairSH on Thursday May 22, 2014 @08:42AM (#7783502)
That 5-6 weeks is well outside he norm in the US.

In my experience, to get that much leave, you have to work at the same company for 5+ years. And either be highly-paid white collar OR highly paid union.

http://www.psmag.com/navigation/business-economics/the-unite... http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ebs.t05.htm

Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by Avshalom on Thursday May 22, 2014 @08:58AM (#7783567)
None of those are mandatory holidays in the US.
Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by bpyne on Thursday May 22, 2014 @01:25PM (#7784990)
Especially if you work in retail or the food/hospitality industries.
Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by lmm on Thursday May 22, 2014 @08:44AM (#7783510)
UK guy here; it's 5-6 weeks in addition to national holidays (which are normally 8 days/year).
Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by dobbsbob on Thursday May 22, 2014 @10:09AM (#7783914)
Highschool I worked for Lufthansa here in North America, it was common to see Germans fly over their bikes to go on a 2 month road trip while on paid vacation.
Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by Dewie on Thursday May 22, 2014 @10:48AM (#7784115)
> It could also help individual people to cope with social anxieties by being "busy".

I can't even tell you how incredibly "busy" I was during recess in high school. Also during free hours and any kind of down time... so much to do!

Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by jff on Thursday May 22, 2014 @01:23PM (#7784974)
You had recess in high school?
Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by Dewie on Thursday May 22, 2014 @01:37PM (#7785056)
I had breaks. That's what I meant. What did you think I meant? Something other than that? Or where you just being a pedant?
Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by jff on Friday May 23, 2014 @01:30AM (#7788115)
Sorry, I was being sincere. We had "recess" in elementary school, where we'd go out for 15-30 minutes and play. If you meant the 5 minute breaks between classes I don't remember what we called them, probably breaks. I wondered if you went to some odd high school that had breaks to go play in the fields.
Re:The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever by Dewie on Friday May 23, 2014 @02:17PM (#7790577)
Sure, we had 5 minutes or whatever short breaks between classes. Though I said that I was "busy" during all periods of free time that I had to spend within the school (lunches, free hours, etc.), so I don't think the distinction matters in this case. :)

(For that matter: I didn't really go to "high school", I'm just using that as the name for my school system's equivalent of year 11 to 13.)