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Re:Zenimax Sues Oculus by tptacek on Wednesday May 21, 2014 @10:17PM (#7781795)
Starting on page 20:

    57. On July 26, 2012, Luckey again asked for
    ZeniMax’s help with the Kickstarter video,
    specifically asking Carmack to provide a clip
    “talking about the Rift/VR in general/whatever
    else you think would be a great thing to have.”
    Luckey further acknowledged: “Your reputation has
    really helped the credibility of this project, and
    having that credibility in the video would make a
    big difference for alot [sic] of people.” Carmack
    declined Luckey’s request to appear in the
    Kickstarter video.
     
    58. At about that same time, Carmack advised
    Luckey: “It is very important that you NOT use
    anything that could be construed as Zenimax
    property in the promotion of your product. Showing
    my R&D testbed with the Rage media would be bad,
    for instance.”  

    59. Luckey replied, “I will make
    sure we do not show the Rage demo in the
    Kickstarter, but is there any chance we can
    mention support/show a quick clip from Doom 3/BFG
    Edition?” ZeniMax turned down Luckey’s request,
    instructing that Luckey rely on publicly-available
    information for Kickstarter promotional material.
     
    60. On August 1, 2012, Luckey launched the Oculus
    Kickstarter campaign. The funding target was set
    at $250,000. The Kickstarter page featured a
    five-minute video describing the modified Rift
    headset.
     
    61. In blatant disregard of ZeniMax’s rights,
    Defendants used ZeniMax’s intellectual property in
    the Kickstarter video. The video features multiple
    clips showing “DOOM 3: BFG Edition,” displayed on
    the modified Rift headset. The video also used
    “DOOM 3: BFG Edition” to promote the modified Rift
    by displaying, without authorization, ZeniMax’s
    logo for “DOOM 3: BFG Edition” as the first
    Oculus-Rift ready game. Further, despite the lack
    of any commercial agreement with ZeniMax,
    Defendants promised that certain backers of the
    Kickstarter campaign would receive copies of
    ZeniMax’s game “DOOM 3: BFG Edition” with support
    for the modified Rift.
Context: at this point, Luckey has executed an NDA with Zenimax, in writing, with a "proper use" clause. Carmack has demoed the Rift at E3 to thunderous response. Luckey subsequently, Zenimax alleges, shifted from planning to offer "$500 worth of optics as a hobbyist package" to "launching a commercial product". Zenimax has, it alleges, made overtures to Luckey for a joint venture, but Luckey has ignored them. Then, after being warned by Carmack not to do it, Luckey creates a Kickstarter that prominently features id games.

Could be ugly.

Re:Zenimax Sues Oculus by jsmthrowaway on Wednesday May 21, 2014 @10:20PM (#7781803)
I hope everybody who comments on this story reads the complaint. There's some really damning stuff in there and some of the more damning claims come with evidence, including Oculus demanding exclusive licensing of IP "shared by Carmack" during negotiations (paragraph 77). That stands in contrast to public statements from Oculus that ZeniMax contributed nothing.

ZeniMax knows that Oculus holds the stronger public opinion, for two reasons: (1) people love Oculus, and (2) Minecraft fans are still stinging from ZeniMax's trademark claims against Mojang re: Scrolls. Very good play on ZeniMax's part, dropping a release and an extremely well-written complaint at once. They want to control the narrative.

Re:Zenimax Sues Oculus by tptacek on Wednesday May 21, 2014 @10:24PM (#7781816)
The whole complaint is interesting. The tricky thing about citing claims about ZeniMax's IP is that those claims hinge on the IP actually belonging to ZeniMax. Oculus and Carmack may be able to make a case that the VR work Carmack did isn't bound up in Carmack's work-for-hire agreement with ZeniMax.

But directly using ZeniMax properties to promote the thing while working under a cloud of IP ownership uncertainty was probably not a great move.

Re:Zenimax Sues Oculus by danielweber on Wednesday May 21, 2014 @10:45PM (#7781864)
While Oculus surely shouldn't have used ZeniMax's stuff in their demo, and should definitely pay some kind of damages for it, it seems like a small part of what's at play.

Or is it supposed to show how fast-and-loose Oculus was with other people's stuff?

Edit At least reading through the rest, and taking ZeniMax at their word, it looks like ZeniMax has a credible claim that it's their software that got the Rift working. But if true, it feels like there should be some discrete evidence of that by looking at what's running on the Rift.

Re:Zenimax Sues Oculus by jsmthrowaway on Wednesday May 21, 2014 @10:28PM (#7781829)
After reading, I was reminded of ConnectU LLC v. Mark Zuckerberg and The Facebook, Inc. Which, given recent events around the ownership of Oculus, is hilarious.
Re:Zenimax Sues Oculus by nitrogen on Thursday May 22, 2014 @02:22AM (#7782411)
I hope everybody who comments on this story reads the complaint. There's some really damning stuff in there...

Naturally a complaint will be written to portray the defendant in as unfavorable a light as possible. As with federal indictments, I wouldn't want to see people form their opinions of a company based on the content of a one-sided complaint against them (not a lawyer, not legal advice).

I was fairly vocally opposed to the Facebook acquisition of Oculus, but still, let's wait for the Oculus response and subsequent settlement or trial.

Re:Zenimax Sues Oculus by jsmthrowaway on Thursday May 22, 2014 @04:16PM (#7786212)
You conveniently snipped the part of that observation that included evidence.
Re:Zenimax Sues Oculus by nitrogen on Thursday May 22, 2014 @11:02PM (#7787771)
Evidence selectively included in a complaint or indictment is still biased. One can present a carefully chosen subset of all knowable facts in support of nearly any position.

However, it was not my intention to misconstrue your comment, and if you feel that I have done so, I apologize.

Re:Zenimax Sues Oculus by lacksconfidence on Thursday May 22, 2014 @11:54AM (#7784435)
prediction: facebook settles with zenimax for an undisclosed amount of money/stock/ip licensing with no admittance of wrong doing.
Re:Zenimax Sues Oculus by momerath on Wednesday May 21, 2014 @11:33PM (#7781965)
The use of Doom3 in the Kickstarter (I remember feeling like Carmack had given his seal of approval), definitely provides Zenimax with ammo, and I agree, it could be ugly.

Like so many other (game) programmers, Carmack is a hero of mine, and the bias runs deep. In reading the complaint, though, I was starting to feel for Zenimax, but when the "$500 worth of optics" phrase started appearing, they lost me. The kit, as described in the thread where Carmack and Palmer first interacted in public, was to be a display, display-controller, and some sort of ski-goggle based contraption you could put together. And, iirc, $300 was the price discussed.

But I think the really key point, missing from this complaint, is that, before Carmack (and Abrash at Valve) improved on the Rift, it had stirred up interest because of the concept of using simple, _cheap_, optics, that would allow the display to be closer to the eyes (wide FOV), and pre-correcting for the resulting distortion in software.

Carmack and Abrash provided some secret sauce that I'm sure will be vital to the sense of presence that will drive broad appeal, but the breakthrough was saying "so what if the optics massively distort the image; we'll fix it in software". From what I've read, I'm pretty sure that wasn't Palmer's idea to begin with either, but he was the first one to run with it.

Re:Zenimax Sues Oculus by NotHereNotThere on Thursday May 22, 2014 @12:02AM (#7782033)
What I found the most interesting in the complaint is the fact that Zenimax consistently provided Oculus with IP under their supposed NDA, while suggesting some form a compensation to Zenimax.

Even though Oculus was not responding (initially) to those requests, Zenimax STILL continued providing code to run on the Rift. It almost looks like Zenimax was trying to get to a point where they could sue Oculus.

The complaint then clearly describes Oculus's proposal (2% equity, subject to dilution, etc) and conveniently glosses over Zenimax's "larger share of equity" counter offer (which Oculus seemingly found far fetched).

And then the turning point; when Zenimax instructed Carmack to stop providing code for the Rift to Oculus, Carmack resigns and joins Oculus (eventually with 5 other "key" VR employees of Zenimax).

I can definitely see how this looks bad for Oculus. They will probably get slapped for the unauthorized IP usage for the DOOM videos, logos per their NDA. But for actual code? Who knows..

The Rift most likely does not run any of Zenimax's code at this point since Carmack must have rewritten it from scratch. But Carmack would obviously remember what and how he wrote the Rift's software; would that count as still infringing upon Zenimax's IP?

Re:Zenimax Sues Oculus by interpol_p on Thursday May 22, 2014 @01:37AM (#7782287)
I think the complaint purposefully blurs the distinction between "Carmack" and "Zenimax" during Carmack's period of employment.

So it makes their behaviour look a bit contradictory: one part of Zenimax is asking for (or hinting at) compensation, and another part is setting up FTP sites to transfer code, supplying technical advice and more. And this is happening simultaneously.

But really, that second part is just Carmack being friendly with Luckey, who is at this point some kid in his garage with cool VR tech.

Carmack didn't really resign — his employment contract was up in June 2013. I'm guessing he had a lot of free reign at Zenimax and was likely bored. VR gave him something to be passionate about again, and he just had to wait out his contract before he could go all-in.

Re:Zenimax Sues Oculus by KVFinn on Wednesday May 21, 2014 @11:21PM (#7781941)
>hen, after being warned by Carmack not to do it, Luckey creates a Kickstarter that prominently features id games.

Just idly wondering...

If I created a fancy gaming mouse and wrote some software integration with a popular gaming series at the time, could I not offer that as a reward tier for a Kickstarter? I would think as long as I can get resellable boxed copies I could throw it in?

Re:Zenimax Sues Oculus by adventured on Thursday May 22, 2014 @03:41AM (#7782604)
Companies can usually - one way or another - legally control whether their products are used in a promotional manner.

For example, if you create a gaming mouse, buy ten retail copies of the new Doom 7 right off the retail shelves and offer them for promotional purposes at no cost along with your mouse, the publisher (or sometimes game creator) can ask you to cease and desist. The lawsuit, were one to occur, might argue that you're causing misrepresentation (have to be careful not to make it look like your gaming mouse is being endorsed by the game creator or publisher etc), or claim that you're damaging their game's brand through commercial association they didn't approve of, and they could also go the route of claiming you're commercially benefiting from association with their game / brand and seek monetary compensation.

Way back when, circa mid to late 1990's I ran into these types of problems in the gaming industry with a company I operated. The gaming world was a lot more legally benign back then and it was still a serious problem. Back then you could often easily get permission from the company to do a promotion, but you properly would check in with their PR / marketing group and get formal approval. id Software was often decent about these types of things. They did a zillion community promotions of all sorts.

Re:Zenimax Sues Oculus by cookiecaper on Thursday May 22, 2014 @05:02AM (#7782822)
I'm not a lawyer but I don't know how they could legitimately win a suit for something so innocuous. This sounds like one of those things that people tell you to try to scare you out of doing something that the PR department doesn't like but really has no authority to control.

There's nothing illegal about giving out free copies of something that you bought off the shelf, whether or not you have the vendor's authorization to do that. They could claim some type of fraudulent misrepresentation, but I'd think the violations would have to be flagrant and egregious for something like that to fly.

Re:Zenimax Sues Oculus by hyp0 on Thursday May 22, 2014 @12:04AM (#7782038)
from the article:

  the key technology Luckey used to establish Oculus was developed by Zenimax
a weird statement: it sounds like it's about the Oculus technology, but it seems to be about the kickstarter promotion. i.e. marketing not engineering. So what if they played a Zenimax game on it? I think the only danger ethically is if Oculus represented Zenimax as backing the project... though I'm not sure it would into any specific tort (e.g. trademark infringement, passing off etc).

Looks like a negotiating strategy by Zenimax... and since Oculus lacks deep pockets, which pressure could be effective. That is, absent the counter-pressure of public opinion...

Re:Zenimax Sues Oculus by anigbrowl on Thursday May 22, 2014 @12:12AM (#7782063)
They're talking about the SDK and most of the headset technology as well as the firmware. Luckey's key contribution was the wide-angle optics.
Re:Zenimax Sues Oculus by interpol_p on Thursday May 22, 2014 @12:33AM (#7782119)
Actually, the wide-angle optics came from Luckey's professor, Mark Bolas [1,2]. Luckey combined it with the head angle tracking and a vastly polished design for the unit, though.

[1] http://projects.ict.usc.edu/mxr/diy/fov2go-viewer/ [2] http://blog.kenperlin.com/?p=14708