Level3 is without peer, now what to do?

Re:Level3 is without peer, now what to do? by jonknee on Tuesday May 20, 2014 @01:10PM (#7773734)

I'm going to go with customers being mad with who they send a big check to every month (e.g. Comcast). 99% of people only know about their ISP, not their ISP's providers.

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Re:Level3 is without peer, now what to do? by Jtsummers on Tuesday May 20, 2014 @01:25PM (#7773825)

Not a big check, but they'd also be frustrated with Netflix/Hulu/Amazon Prime whom they also send money to each month (or year). The average customer wouldn't understand that it's the middleman causing problems, not one of the two endpoints (service provider or content provider).

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Re:Level3 is without peer, now what to do? by jimbokun on Tuesday May 20, 2014 @02:14PM (#7774188)

If ABC has a blank channel, but you can still watch CBS and NBC and ESPN just fine, the average consumer will assume the problem is with ABC.

If all the channels are blank, the average consumer will blame the cable company.

Similarly, if "the Internet is down", from the customer's perspective, they're going to blame the ISP, not Netflix/Hulu/Amazon.

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Re:Level3 is without peer, now what to do? by busterarm on Tuesday May 20, 2014 @05:28PM (#7775345)

Not true. I work for a cable/fiber ISP. Customers always blame the ISP.

Even when the problem is the feed (like with CW's networks last month)...or when some dipshit construction company digs where they aren't supposed to.

Luckily I don't work for one of the horrible ISPs that everyone hates, but we're definitely more in the blame-receiving business than is warranted.

Folks don't understand the complexity involved in making a utility service "just work" and if the provider doesn't have hundreds of millions to invest in infrastructure (like my small provider doesn't have) it won't.

The big ISPs have no excuse for not peering properly, but this is a fight they've been having with Level3 since the late 90s. Sadly they're winning.

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Re:Level3 is without peer, now what to do? by singlow on Tuesday May 20, 2014 @08:48PM (#7776114)

When the customers call you, it is because they blame you. You never hear from the ones who don't blame you.

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Re:Level3 is without peer, now what to do? by busterarm on Wednesday May 21, 2014 @10:50PM (#7781879)

That's not entirely true, but the majority of them do.

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Re:Level3 is without peer, now what to do? by couchand on Wednesday May 21, 2014 @12:43AM (#7776729)

Wait, did you just call broadband internet a "utility"? As in a Title II utility?

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Re:Level3 is without peer, now what to do? by busterarm on Wednesday May 21, 2014 @10:47PM (#7781873)

We provide phone service as well/primarily.

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Re:Level3 is without peer, now what to do? by Jtsummers on Tuesday May 20, 2014 @02:27PM (#7774259)

That's if everyone particpates on a Comcast/TWC/Cox/etc. boycott. If my parents can get to Amazon Prime but not Netflix, they'll assume the issue is Netflix. (ok, maybe not my parents, but the idealized tech-unaware parent)

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Re:Level3 is without peer, now what to do? by hardoncollider on Tuesday May 20, 2014 @03:07PM (#7774527)

But with such massive depeering as this, practically all of the internet would be affected, given the amount of traffic other peers would have to pick up.

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Re:Level3 is without peer, now what to do? by jonknee on Tuesday May 20, 2014 @01:53PM (#7774038)

I guess that depends on the number of participating Tier-1 providers that pull the plug, if enough did it would be very obvious it wasn't Netflix with the issue because everything would grind to a crawl.

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Re:Level3 is without peer, now what to do? by icebraining on Tuesday May 20, 2014 @01:59PM (#7774084)

What about the CDN's customers, ie., companies with sites that their costumers couldn't access?

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Re:Level3 is without peer, now what to do? by Spooky23 on Tuesday May 20, 2014 @01:17PM (#7773785)

Ask your mom who her favorite CDN is.

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Re:Level3 is without peer, now what to do? by Nexxxeh on Tuesday May 20, 2014 @08:49PM (#7776122)

Akamai. Moms love Akamai.

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Re:Level3 is without peer, now what to do? by ryanhuff on Tuesday May 20, 2014 @04:09PM (#7774873)

Comcast's customers have no idea what a CDN is. All they know is that the internet is slow, and Comcast is the internet to them.

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Re:Level3 is without peer, now what to do? by rhizome on Tuesday May 20, 2014 @01:51PM (#7774022)

I don't think it would go that way, their customers would more often say, "what's a CDN?"

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Re:Level3 is without peer, now what to do? by JTon on Tuesday May 20, 2014 @02:28PM (#7774269)

They don't have to say CDN explicitly. They can simply say Netflix or Hulu. For example, "Dear valued customer. The recent slow down of your Netflix service is the result of an issue with Netflix servers. ISP_X service is fully functional. Please contact Netflix customer support for further assistance"

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Re:Level3 is without peer, now what to do? by yebyen on Tuesday May 20, 2014 @04:20PM (#7774920)

I'm pretty sure Netflix just paid Comcast, and maybe I'm not keeping up with the issues as they arise and I'm really uninformed about the current state of things, but if Level3 is still having a dispute with Comcast, and Comcast blames Level3's actions on Netflix just because they need to blame someone who their customers will recognize...

Forget about the gigundous case for libel Netflix would have against Comcast on millions of counts... those Netflix payments that Comcast just earned are going to stop, and their first high-profile experiment with double-dipping payments will have failed abruptly.

I assure you Comcast does not want that.

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Re:Level3 is without peer, now what to do? by pdonis on Tuesday May 20, 2014 @08:16PM (#7775991)

> I'm pretty sure Netflix just paid Comcast

They most certainly did; and what's more, the transit provider Netflix was using prior to paying Comcast was, IIRC, Cogent, not Level3.

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Re:Level3 is without peer, now what to do? by yebyen on Wednesday May 21, 2014 @02:44PM (#7779977)

So, then this whole idea that Level3 is the only one having problems with these five last-mile ISPs is bunk? Level3's wikipedia page still says they deliver Netflix. Now you're saying they don't even host Netflix. What are Level3's other major clients? I have to imagine there are bigger fish than Apple/iTunes (maybe I'm all wet), they are the only other major client mentioned on the wiki page.

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Re:Level3 is without peer, now what to do? by pdonis on Wednesday May 21, 2014 @06:08PM (#7781051)

> this whole idea that Level3 is the only one having problems with these five last-mile ISPs is bunk?

I think so, but it's only fair to note that it's very difficult to get accurate information about this, since all of the parties have a strong interest in not making all the details public, at least not while they're jockeying for position.

> Level3's wikipedia page still says they deliver Netflix.

No, it says (if you go look at the reference that's footnoted) that Netflix was about to switch to Level3 (from Cogent, although that specific reference doesn't say so) as as transit provider, and Comcast used that to try to extract peering fees from Level3 based on an expected increased level of traffic. When Level3 refused, Comcast went to Netflix and got them to pay for direct connection to Comcast's network, bypassing any transit provider.

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Re:Level3 is without peer, now what to do? by rhizome on Tuesday May 20, 2014 @08:38PM (#7776077)

Um, that would be a trade libel.

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