Re:Cider: Native Execution of iOS Apps on Android
by saarons on Tuesday May 13, 2014 @11:40PM
(#7742060)
I've taken a few classes with some of the authors of this project and they are all amazingly talented. I remember Alex gave a presentation about a year ago on this and he mentioned how hard it was for them to wedge C++ into the Linux kernel just so they could get I/O Kit to work. It was also awesome to see the iOS Stocks app running on a Nexus 7. From what I saw it worked pretty well and aside from the uncanniness of the whole experience, it was pretty amazing to see a fully-working demo. Keep up the good work guys.
Re:Cider: Native Execution of iOS Apps on Android
by mdaniel on Wednesday May 14, 2014 @12:14AM
(#7742157)
I guess the lesson here is that one shouldn't do something so awesome that one's hosting company can't withstand the HN (and likely Reddit) onslaught :-)
Re:Cider: Native Execution of iOS Apps on Android
by zmmmmm on Tuesday May 13, 2014 @10:40PM
(#7741920)
As an academic work this would fairly clearly fall under a fair use defense, but I wonder how the recent Oracle / Java copyright API decision would affect any potential further development / distribution / commercialization of something like this. It seems at very least it would have a huge chilling effect on anybody who might otherwise have thought to attempt it.
Re:Cider: Native Execution of iOS Apps on Android
by filmgirlcw on Tuesday May 13, 2014 @11:40PM
(#7742061)
Even without the Oracle ruling, any attempt to commercialize something like this would get shutdown because of how it decrypts IPA files. Not to mention Apple's terms of service are very clear that iOS apps cannot be distributed outside of the App Store (the enterprise deployment "store" option being the one exception, and companies pay for that privilege and have to comply with specific guidelines around that).
Re:Cider: Native Execution of iOS Apps on Android
by comex on Wednesday May 14, 2014 @12:29AM
(#7742205)
It's not just the apps themselves. In its current state, the program in the paper replaces only the kernel interface and some user libraries (OpenGL); all the rest of the core Apple frameworks are copied from iOS. In theory, a Wine-like project could attempt to reimplement all of these frameworks, which is where the Oracle ruling comes in...
Re:Cider: Native Execution of iOS Apps on Android
by erichocean on Wednesday May 14, 2014 @12:51AM
(#7742263)
> In theory, a Wine-like project could attempt to reimplement all of these frameworks
You mean like the Google Ventures-backed Apportable[0]? It's already delivered 3 of the top 10 games on Android, and I'm currently using it to port a "normal" social network app from iOS to Android (using the development version which re-implements Core Animation on top of OpenGL ES 2).
Re:Cider: Native Execution of iOS Apps on Android
by josephlord on Wednesday May 14, 2014 @03:03AM
(#7742566)
And getting back to the Oracle ruling I think the fair-use defence for something like this aimed at a compatible implementation would be stronger than Google's because they were trying to fork the platform and avoid the available Java licensing offers.
Re:Cider: Native Execution of iOS Apps on Android
by mschuster91 on Wednesday May 14, 2014 @08:30AM
(#7743321)
Base the company in Germany, problem solved. Here it is legal to reverse engineer and reimplement stuff, as long as you're doing it to obtain compatibility with other apps/platforms.
Re:Cider: Native Execution of iOS Apps on Android
by hwh on Wednesday May 14, 2014 @09:22AM
(#7743539)
Stated in such a general way, this is not true. It's just the case that some contractual preventions of reverse engineering might be invalid. But the moment you distribute something, patent laws can become a big problem.
Re:Cider: Native Execution of iOS Apps on Android
by filmgirlcw on Tuesday May 13, 2014 @11:49PM
(#7742085)
I doubt it. The jailbreak/decryption technique they used to get the IPA files was for iOS 5.1 on a 3GS. There are undoubtedly newer techniques, but actually maintaining and grabbing app files is non-trivial. And any centralized repository is instantly targeted, so you have a seedy app underground of stuff that probably isn't even current.
Then you have the fact that there is 40% overhead on Android to replicate the iOS experience. And the fact that the bluetooth and GPS components won't work.
So do you really think people will buy cheap tablets, spend time installing some hack to run older apps and then get subpar performance, just so they can have access to ios apps? Won't happen. A small sector of users might be willing to do this, but definitely not enough to disrupt anything.
I mean, this is considerably more complex than a hackintosh and we all saw how those projects just totally destroyed Apple's Mac sales. Oh, wait...
Re:Cider: Native Execution of iOS Apps on Android
by maguay on Wednesday May 14, 2014 @12:05AM
(#7742131)
If it's anything like the hackintosh market, this could help iOS device sales if people tried and liked the iOS apps they could get on Android. Plenty of us who had a hackintosh (myself only in a virtual machine, but still) ended up switching to the Mac after trying out OS X that way.
Re:Cider: Native Execution of iOS Apps on Android
by jonathansizz on Wednesday May 14, 2014 @12:37AM
(#7742226)
Sorry about the inoperative server; many outlets have picked up on this over the last several hours, but I thought that a link to the original source would be most appropriate.
Hopefully, tomorrow morning someone will enter the server room, remove the melted plastic, and replace the previous server with a new one..
Re:Cider: Native Execution of iOS Apps on Android
by tluyben2 on Wednesday May 14, 2014 @02:18AM
(#7742451)
This is amazing work. As someone who implemented a significant part of the iOS API on top of Android, I can say it's not trivial :) Disclaimer: we created an Apportable competitor for Xamarin based projects which will see the light this week.
Re:Cider: Native Execution of iOS Apps on Android
by shna on Wednesday May 14, 2014 @12:05AM
(#7742129)
I am more interested in people who did this than what they have achieved. The difference in capability of me and them is like distance between planets. How one can become such talented!
Re:Cider: Native Execution of iOS Apps on Android
by jasonwocky on Tuesday May 13, 2014 @11:37PM
(#7742057)
Much of OpenGL is implemented in hardware rather than software, and that benchmark is probably pretty close to pure OpenGL. There wouldn't be much emulation to do.
Re:Cider: Native Execution of iOS Apps on Android
by userbinator on Wednesday May 14, 2014 @12:14AM
(#7742156)
This is particularly amusing in light of the fact that there are tons of Chinese clones of the iPhone that run (often iOS-skinned) Android, e.g. the Goophone/Zophone i5. Those would make great hardware to use with this.
Re:Cider: Native Execution of iOS Apps on Android
by mlady on Tuesday May 13, 2014 @09:38PM
(#7741744)
very cool proof of concept. adds a new, interesting dimension to multi-platform mobile development solutions. definitely noticeable lag, so you're not fooling anyone just yet with its native-ness.
how are apps loaded? Individually installed via adb? do you have access to the iTunes store on Android?
Re:Cider: Native Execution of iOS Apps on Android
by krilnon on Wednesday May 14, 2014 @12:20AM
(#7742184)
You're right, although it is systems.cs.columbia.edu specifically, so it's just a group within a department. If they're anything like my old research groups, the web server is just an old box or a Xen VM that's about to be retired, since people mostly aren't hammering the server daily.
Demo Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uaple0Ec1Dg
Paper Mirrors:
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~nieh/pubs/asplos2014_cider.pdf
http://jeremya.com/files/pub/2014/03/cider-asplos2014.pdf
http://alexvh.com/publications/asplos2014_cider.pdf
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~alduaij/pubs/cider-asplos2014.pd...
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:r4w8_HO...
and the paper:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:mfQeoRS...
EDIT: Here's a vacuumed Scribd link to another PDF version of the paper (http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~nieh/pubs/asplos2014_cider.pdf) that hopefully won't go down:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/223946296/Untitled?secret_password...
You mean like the Google Ventures-backed Apportable[0]? It's already delivered 3 of the top 10 games on Android, and I'm currently using it to port a "normal" social network app from iOS to Android (using the development version which re-implements Core Animation on top of OpenGL ES 2).
[0] http://www.apportable.com/
edit: comex beat me to it.
I wonder if this will open the floodgates for ios piracy hosted on android.
Could you buy a cheap noname android tablet and install a pirated full ios OS environment + apps?
A hassle-free, always-jailbreakable "hackintosh" of ios that is cheaper than the original could a disruptive thing.
Then you have the fact that there is 40% overhead on Android to replicate the iOS experience. And the fact that the bluetooth and GPS components won't work.
So do you really think people will buy cheap tablets, spend time installing some hack to run older apps and then get subpar performance, just so they can have access to ios apps? Won't happen. A small sector of users might be willing to do this, but definitely not enough to disrupt anything.
I mean, this is considerably more complex than a hackintosh and we all saw how those projects just totally destroyed Apple's Mac sales. Oh, wait...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BfmmtSKCEAAQ2WQ.jpg:large
You would need at least a mid-range android phone/tablet to get decent responsiveness.
Hopefully, tomorrow morning someone will enter the server room, remove the melted plastic, and replace the previous server with a new one..
how are apps loaded? Individually installed via adb? do you have access to the iTunes store on Android?
Edit: Great name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TransGaming_Technologies#Cider