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Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by leorocky on Tuesday May 06, 2014 @09:53PM (#7708207)
Now I wonder if the GPL license should have a "do not use for killing people" clause in it.
Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by ams6110 on Tuesday May 06, 2014 @10:30PM (#7708317)
Reminds me of Crockford's JSON license: "The software shall be used for Good, not Evil" [1] and his story of how IBM objected to that, and he wrote them a special exception "I give permission for IBM, its customers, partners, and minions, to use JSLint for evil." [2]

1: http://www.json.org/license.html

2: http://dev.hasenj.org/post/3272592502/ibm-and-its-minions

Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by executive on Tuesday May 06, 2014 @11:51PM (#7708529)
Makes sense. IBM tech did power the Holocaust.
Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by aaronem on Wednesday May 07, 2014 @01:01AM (#7708685)
As well as the Apollo program, in the form of the Saturn V instrument unit.

I suppose it never ceases being necessary to reiterate that no technology is either good or evil, and it's not applied science which carries moral weight, but the uses to which people put it.

Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by mnordhoff on Wednesday May 07, 2014 @01:56AM (#7708807)
Indeed, and IBM are a collection of people who made, and still make, decisions about the uses to which their technology will be put. Technology does not amorally have the German census department -- or the Apollo program -- on speed dial.
Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by camus2 on Wednesday May 07, 2014 @03:48AM (#7709052)
Thats why USA welcomed so many nazi scientists right after WW2,operation paper clip...
Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by antocv on Wednesday May 07, 2014 @04:46AM (#7709205)
" to reiterate that no technology is either good or evil,"

Well, thats like your, opinion, man.

Some people believe technology is the root of all evil. Technology is by itself evil. Technology is destroyer of natural world and human societies. It is the driving force of alienation, specialization of labor and slavery.

Since the invention of the wheel, oh so often epitomized as the great beginning of invention and technology, tech has promised more play and less work, instead several thousands year later, we can put wheels in our bodies and yet we work more and play less than ever before.

The more technology in a society the more slavery, work and less play and dance. The more destructive capability.

So, yes, you can have your opinion, man, but technology is evil.

Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by kleim on Wednesday May 07, 2014 @06:10AM (#7709397)
I don't think so. Without technology any basic daily task become incredibly difficult. Try surviving a month in the wild: most of your thoughts and activity in a day would be focused toward getting food, drink, shelter...

Technology freed us from these burdens.

Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by antocv on Wednesday May 07, 2014 @10:48AM (#7710427)
"I don't think so. Without technology any basic daily task become incredibly difficult"

Well, thats like, your opinion, man.

You ask a non-civilized person to survive in New York for a month, then lets talk again.

You are most hours of your life spending on acquiring food, drink and shelter. Its called work for a reason.

Hunters-gatherer societies spent much less time, hunting to aquire food. An activity that you cant even do today if you dont toil for a few months to save for that activity.

EDIT: btw, downvoting me for having a different opinion? thats nice.

Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by aaronem on Wednesday May 07, 2014 @11:57AM (#7710878)
"By the sweat of thy brow shalt thou earn thy daily bread."

It's tempting, I agree, to romanticize our species' distant past, to imagine that our hunter-gatherer ancestors enjoyed what Christian mythology calls the Garden of Eden, and that, had they but not invented agriculture, with its ties to the land and its back-breaking labor, we would even today still recline in paradisaical idyll. Perhaps that's even true, although I doubt it. But the arrow of time has only one head.

Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by aaronem on Wednesday May 07, 2014 @10:50AM (#7710439)
Have you read Against His-Story, Against Leviathan!? If you hven't, you really must; I didn't think very highly of it, but from the sound of what you're spouting here, that book is right up your alley.
Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by antocv on Friday May 09, 2014 @05:04PM (#7723260)
Yes I have thank you, if I have the time I will read it again.

Very good catch, you hacker you.

Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by camus2 on Wednesday May 07, 2014 @03:46AM (#7709044)
IBM is not a technology,it's a corporation.

    >  that no technology is either good or evil,
people certainly are,and since corporations are people ...
Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by ronjouch on Wednesday May 07, 2014 @12:03AM (#7708550)
Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by ineedtosleep on Tuesday May 06, 2014 @10:10PM (#7708266)
It would go against their definition of "free software"[1]:

    A program is free software if the program's users have the four essential freedoms:
        The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0).
[1] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by rectangletangle on Tuesday May 06, 2014 @11:35PM (#7708484)
Yeah, but killing people also goes against freedom.
Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by hueving on Wednesday May 07, 2014 @03:20AM (#7708994)
The license doesn't say it must be used to promote freedom. It just says the users must have certain freedoms. Those are two very different things.
Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by seanmcdirmid on Tuesday May 06, 2014 @11:52PM (#7708531)
To be fair, there have been legitimate freedom fighters whose battles would be considered just by many of us even if blood was spilled.

I'm not sure how de-arming would help the US right now, but I understand that there are a lot who would argue that the US has too many weapons (as opposed to having any at all).

Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by lutorm on Tuesday May 06, 2014 @09:58PM (#7708225)
Then it would not be free... but I wonder if shooting a linux-powered missile counts as "redistribution" under the GPL, so that you would then be forced to give the target a copy of your software?
Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by qbrass on Tuesday May 06, 2014 @11:29PM (#7708470)
They'll send you another missile with the source code just as soon as they get your location.
Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by rdmckenzie on Tuesday May 06, 2014 @11:22PM (#7708449)
I'm sure that adding a small disk with the source code to the warhead would be an acceptable and valued solution.
Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by kijin on Tuesday May 06, 2014 @10:48PM (#7708364)
At the very least, I guess that would be a good reason to avoid implementing the missile control software as a kernel module.

Or maybe not, since the missile is clearly intended to be destroyed upon reaching the target.

Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by steve19 on Tuesday May 06, 2014 @10:15PM (#7708282)
There is also a rifle that runs Linux. It allows you to easily hit a target at 1000 yards in high wind with no skill. I have used it.

If you made an OS that disallowed military use / 'killing people' you would exclude GPS satellites (used to guide smart bombs etc.). It would disallow military delivered aid (same US Navy ships that deliver aid can also be used to deliver munitions / support a fleet). It would disallow legitimate defense of any country.

Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by aaronem on Wednesday May 07, 2014 @11:52AM (#7710838)
> I have used it.

How was it? I've heard a lot of really impressive claims; I'd be interested to know whether the hardware lives up to the hype.

Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by mpyne on Tuesday May 06, 2014 @10:03PM (#7708245)
If it had a "Field of Use" restriction it wouldn't be Free Software.
Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by rainmaking on Wednesday May 07, 2014 @06:19AM (#7709421)
The no-kill-GPL would just collapse under the additional complexity and people would just end up not using software licensed under it.

For example, what kind of killing do you mean? Could you sue a doctor for using a medical device containing no-kill-GPL software for losing a patient? What about abortions? We've already put the question of when life starts into the GPL and haven't even started covering military use.

Better to follow the good old adage of engineering and use the right tool for the job. Use copyleft licenses to further software freedom, and use activism to achieve your political goals.

Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by superuser2 on Wednesday May 07, 2014 @01:06AM (#7708700)
Apple's EULA prohibits the use of Apple products to run nuclear equipment. This is often cited by proponents of free software as an example of the Big Brother-ish restrictions they are trying to eliminate from the world.
Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by aaronem on Wednesday May 07, 2014 @01:18AM (#7708721)
Do they also object to the clearly stated restrictions, which TI places on its general-purpose microcontroller lines, against their use in life-critical equipment?

TI's reasoning is that they don't want to be sued because someone designed, say, a fly-by-wire control system which uses COTS MSP430 parts, and then accidentally built one with a bogus MSP that went toes-up on final and brought a jetliner down short of the runway. It's not that they are averse to their parts being used in life-critical applications; it's that they have specific lines for that purpose, consisting of parts which have undergone much heavier and more stringent testing as compared to the general-purpose lines, and if a designer of life-critical hardware can't be bothered to get in touch with TI and arrange to source parts from one of those lines, then TI's not going to be held responsible for a bad result -- nor should they.

I dare say Apple's reasoning is similar. It's not that they actually expect (e.g.) iTunes to comprise a critical component of a nuclear weapon's operating software, inasmuch as such a device has any; rather, it's that if someone does for some lunatic reason actually build an iTunes module which happens to set off a 1Kt IND when you play the same Lady Gaga track ten times in a row, Apple's not going to be held responsible. Granted, it's a particularly stupid and pointless example of gratuitous lawyerese, but the underlying reasoning is probably very similar to TI's. (Although I do rather doubt that Apple makes a special version of iTunes which is certified for nuclear-weapons use.)

Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by elektronjunge on Wednesday May 07, 2014 @10:37AM (#7710362)
Actually they release a version of iTunes with that clause removed for use in the U.S. national labs. Its unclear in the license whether its direct use to run the nukes or all nuclear related things. So the US government requested a release with an amended license and got it. Source: worked at Los Alamos National Lab for 5 years.
Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by NAFV_P on Wednesday May 07, 2014 @05:49AM (#7709350)
> Apple's EULA prohibits the use of Apple products to run nuclear equipment.

So I'm guessing MRI scanners prefer linux or BSD.

Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by Jtsummers on Tuesday May 06, 2014 @10:01PM (#7708236)
There are already pieces of software whose licenses preclude military use. One I saw once was a smalltalk implementation.

EDIT: my recollection was off. They don't strictly bar it from those fields but may require a non-free license.

http://www.exept.de/en/products/smalltalkx/download

Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by TallGuyShort on Tuesday May 06, 2014 @10:26PM (#7708308)
Parts of the CERN Colt library expressly forbid military applications: http://acs.lbl.gov/software/colt/license.html. It's probably impossible to enforce, but it's a noble statement, IMO.
Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by Sanddancer on Wednesday May 07, 2014 @04:52AM (#7709224)
The problem is that the world's not so black and white. For example, the Army Corps of Engineering does substantial work restoring ecologically sensitive areas, maintaining harbors, etc. Would they be precluded from using this software to generate histograms related to a wetlands restoration project?
Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by Jtsummers on Wednesday May 07, 2014 @07:34AM (#7709599)
I think that's part of the reason for Smalltalk/X's less-than-full ban. Ambiguity is removed because potential licensees can tell them what their intended use is.

On the other hand, perhaps we should be breaking organizations out of the DoD umbrella. Do we need domestic public servant driven civil engineering projects to be under the Army? Maybe a Civil Corps of Engineers should be established to take over their non-defense projects (or more realistically, spun off).

Re:US military UAVs migrate to Linux by reality_czech on Wednesday May 07, 2014 @02:46AM (#7708926)
The killing part is fine. The GPL doesn't impose any restrictions on that. However, the next the next version of the GPL will mandate that UAVs broadcast this continuously:

http://www.jwz.org/hacks/why-cooperation-with-rms-is-impossi...