Re:Ryanair is one opinionated company
by jwilliams on Friday August 07, 2009 @06:00AM
(#747350)
Ryanair say these things for the publicity. Quite often you'll see a Ryanair story about charging for toilets, or obese passengers... Keeps them on the front page.
Re:Ryanair is one opinionated company
by andyjenn on Friday August 07, 2009 @06:59AM
(#747388)
..exactly, like the time they claimed it was faster and cheaper travelling from London to Brussels and were in breach of advertising standards. I think they were on CNN, BBC, Ch4 etc.. every hour to get their point across. Damn fine advertising strategy.
Re:Ryanair is one opinionated company
by catzaa on Friday August 07, 2009 @06:22AM
(#747365)
> Ryanair story about charging for , or obese passengers...
I see no problem with it. It is torture to sit on a flight next to an extremely obese person. They take up more plane space so they should pay more. They also turn a 13 hour flight into 13 hour torture for those on the left, right and in front of them.
The same goes for hand luggage. You get stupid ass people that will remove your laptop (only luggage) from a safe place and put it so that it can fall down to make place for their 3 pieces of luggage.
Re:Ryanair is one opinionated company
by pmjordan on Friday August 07, 2009 @06:41AM
(#747380)
Unfortunately they got shot down on grounds of discrimination for that suggestion. It's one of their crazy schemes I would have actually supported. Airlines have always annoyed me with the fact that you have to pay crazy money if your luggage is 1kg overweight but the guy next to you weighs 80kg more than you and pays the same.
Ryanair annoy me in other ways though, such as the mad dash for the seats, and their habit of introducing hidden fees late in the booking process. (they happen to be the only airline to service the journey to my girlfriend's parents with direct flights, so we use them a few times a year)
Odd: from the article:
“Will we give you a refund on a nonrefundable ticket because your granny died unexpectedly?” he asked. “No! Go away. We’re not interested in your sob stories! What part of ‘no refund’ do you not understand?”
whereas Ryanair do actually fully refund tickets if an immediate relative dies.
Re:Ryanair is one opinionated company
by sonofjanoh on Friday August 07, 2009 @07:30AM
(#747410)
It used to be to protect the staff handling the luggages so they don't have to wreck their backs lifting your heavy stuff. Although some airlines charge you if you exceed 15kgs some if you go over 20 so that is strange for the same airport. Some saw an opportunity and lowered their barrier so they can rip you off.
Still...it's our whining nature. Pay 5000$ for a business class ticket with a full service carrier and you will have none of these problems. I can visit places/friends more often now thanks to low cost flights even if I don't like them.
Re:Ryanair is one opinionated company
by dazzawazza on Friday August 07, 2009 @06:44AM
(#747382)
Yeah and disabled people and ill people. The take up precious time and space!
Is it not a slippery slope where people who are not standardised are charged more? Maybe non standard people should sit at the back of the plane so no one has to see them?
I thought we'd progressed beyond this but it seems we are still a greedy, self centred species at heart willing to condemn a fellow member for a few pathetic dollars and a few minutes of our lives.
Re:Ryanair is one opinionated company
by axod on Friday August 07, 2009 @07:19AM
(#747404)
Have you not sat next to a morbidly obese sweating person whose mounds of fat are spilling onto your leg, arm, shoulder? You should try it some day.
The fairest system IMHO would be to give everyone a "total weight allowance" that includes, you, and all your luggage. And if you're so big you spill onto other peoples laps, buy extra seats.
Next you'll be suggesting we give terrorists equal rights on flights as well! They're people too!
Re:Ryanair is one opinionated company
by catzaa on Saturday August 08, 2009 @09:01AM
(#749254)
> Yeah and disabled people and ill people. The take up precious time and space!
These are completely different issues. A lot of disabled people are able to sit still in their allotted space. A disability is usually also not a lifestyle choice (as obesity is in 99.99% of cases).
I have great empathy for a disabled person. But my empathy does not stretch to people who to supersize their burgers.
> Is it not a slippery slope where people who are not standardised are charged more? Maybe non standard people should sit at the back of the plane so no one has to see them?
They use up more of a service. If a fat person is in a restaurant and he eats to burgers instead of one, is he charged more or not? If you use more of a service then you should pay more.
Also, I pay good money for my small piece of seat. If you sit alongside a fat person he will unapologetically take up 30-40% of your seat space. If you do not want to charge him more, can you at least charge me less? (Since I do not get to use the seat space).
Or why not let fat people sit alongside each other? That way they can feel themselves how they make other people on the plane feel.
The very least an obese person can do is to minimise his carryon luggage – but unfortunately the opposite seems true.
Re:Ryanair is one opinionated company
by yalurker on Friday August 07, 2009 @06:58PM
(#748702)
Your hyperbole is inappropriate here. As an analogy, laws already make exceptions to discrimination if the nature of the job requires certain abilities. Go look for manual labor jobs and you will see statements like "applications must be able to lift X pounds to a height of Y feet". One might naively claim this was discrimination against some disabled people, but an exception is made if the job requires it.
Likewise, if a person does not physically fit into an airline seat, it does not seem unreasonable to me that they would need to pay for a second seat (or a first-class seat, or an extra large seat, however the airline chose to handle the situation).
Re:Ryanair is one opinionated company
by edw519 on Friday August 07, 2009 @08:25AM
(#747459)
(Southwest manages to take a similar approach without coming off as hostile to customers).
[Disclaimer: Raving Southwest fan.]
AFAIC, Southwest is better than almost every other airline in almost every other category. Why? Because they have built a business the way I would want to build one, with one thing in mind: the customer.
Almost everything they do is what the customer wants because someone bothered to ask. Whenever I fly another airline, the differences are noticeable and I ask, "Don't these people get it?"
Ryanair sounds like they're doing the same thing in a mechanical way. Once they engage their customers as Southwest has, they'll have raving fans too.
Re:Ryanair is one opinionated company
by viraptor on Friday August 07, 2009 @06:13AM
(#747363)
Why is this hacker news? Anyways, it's annoying when they're reiterating the same line all the time...
"Ryanair promises four things: low fares, a good on-time record, few cancellations and few lost bags."
Fares aren't low. Easyjet beats them most of the time. Their prices are low only on the front page. It's only 30£ both ways... just add 50£ airport fees (I wonder why other airlines charge only <10£ for the same airport) each way, 20£ if you want to add even 1 piece of luggage, 10£ if you don't opt-out of fast boarding and we're going to ask you to select your nationality many times (only slightly indicating that by doing that you agree to buy insurance). Oh, and 10-15£ fee for handling any credit card at the end. And other things...
So you end up paying ~200£ for a flight that's advertised as 30£. They also wanted to be excluded some time ago from services that listed their real prices.
Oh and on-time flights... that's easy - just say that a 3h flight will take 3.5h - this way they're always 'on time' and passengers can wait some time at the airport (I'm used to arriving 30 min. early on my usual flight)
Re:Ryanair is one opinionated company
by viraptor on Friday August 07, 2009 @07:45PM
(#748753)
There are one-off promotions of course. And you can get them in any airline. Sure it can happen. But it's not the norm.
If you look at current "offers" you get a 12£ Bratislava flight (chosen at random - really)... if you click "continue" enough times, it's actually: Adult @ 12.99 GBP, Taxes/Fees details 28.27 GBP, Coming Back (Web Fare) 1 Adult @ 12.00 GBP, 1 x (Web Check in) 5.00 GBP
Total Cost of Flight 58.26 GBP
Yay - that's really almost 12£ ;) And you have to pay for the payment too, so it's ~68.26£
Re:Ryanair is one opinionated company
by andyking on Friday August 07, 2009 @06:38AM
(#747377)
I don't fly, but friends who've used Ryanair have tales of people going down the aeroplane aisle with catalogues, scratch cards, lottery tickets and all sorts of other junk for sale right through the flight. I've even heard an apocryphal story of someone being woken up so they couldn't sleep through the salespeople!
Re:Ryanair is one opinionated company
by viraptor on Friday August 07, 2009 @06:45AM
(#747383)
Yes, that happens on every flight. Catalogue after ~1h in the air, and lottery ~1h before landing. The prices are usually lower than on the airport, but higher than in shops.
Re:Ryanair is one opinionated company
by Huppie on Friday August 07, 2009 @07:37AM
(#747415)
This article is all about a company (does't matter much that this is RyanAir) that chooses to identify itself by four promises, and they keep them. They deliberately choose not to value things that other companies will value (customer support) in order to attract customers.... and guess what? It works.
Startups should think about their core values and choose a set that they think will work the best.
Hey.... wasn't Hacker News that website with news-links of interest to hackers and startups?
Re:Ryanair is one opinionated company
by barrkel on Friday August 07, 2009 @06:39AM
(#747378)
I've flown on both Easyjet and Ryanair many times - I'm Irish living in UK and no other low-cost airline will compete with Ryanair on its home turf - and I cannot agree with you. Easyjet are usually 10-50% more expensive, but I normally pay the extra for the reduced stress level, fewer ads and higher convenience of destination airport.
Re:Ryanair is one opinionated company
by viraptor on Friday August 07, 2009 @06:51AM
(#747386)
Maybe it depends on a route... I'm flying Bristol -- DE and Bristol -- PL. The only reason I'm using ryanair instead of easyjet is that they fly to my exact destination - with easyjet, I'd have to be the next 3-4h in travel (so together with the flight I'm losing a whole day). I'm prepared pay additional ~70£ to avoid that.
I see no problem with it. It is torture to sit on a flight next to an extremely obese person. They take up more plane space so they should pay more. They also turn a 13 hour flight into 13 hour torture for those on the left, right and in front of them.
The same goes for hand luggage. You get stupid ass people that will remove your laptop (only luggage) from a safe place and put it so that it can fall down to make place for their 3 pieces of luggage.
Ryanair annoy me in other ways though, such as the mad dash for the seats, and their habit of introducing hidden fees late in the booking process. (they happen to be the only airline to service the journey to my girlfriend's parents with direct flights, so we use them a few times a year)
Odd: from the article:
“Will we give you a refund on a nonrefundable ticket because your granny died unexpectedly?” he asked. “No! Go away. We’re not interested in your sob stories! What part of ‘no refund’ do you not understand?”
whereas Ryanair do actually fully refund tickets if an immediate relative dies.
Is it not a slippery slope where people who are not standardised are charged more? Maybe non standard people should sit at the back of the plane so no one has to see them?
I thought we'd progressed beyond this but it seems we are still a greedy, self centred species at heart willing to condemn a fellow member for a few pathetic dollars and a few minutes of our lives.
The fairest system IMHO would be to give everyone a "total weight allowance" that includes, you, and all your luggage. And if you're so big you spill onto other peoples laps, buy extra seats.
Next you'll be suggesting we give terrorists equal rights on flights as well! They're people too!
Incidentally, I agree with the rest of your post.
(ok,ok! -- I deserve the downmod for that one. Just couldn't help myself)
These are completely different issues. A lot of disabled people are able to sit still in their allotted space. A disability is usually also not a lifestyle choice (as obesity is in 99.99% of cases).
I have great empathy for a disabled person. But my empathy does not stretch to people who to supersize their burgers.
> Is it not a slippery slope where people who are not standardised are charged more? Maybe non standard people should sit at the back of the plane so no one has to see them?
They use up more of a service. If a fat person is in a restaurant and he eats to burgers instead of one, is he charged more or not? If you use more of a service then you should pay more.
Also, I pay good money for my small piece of seat. If you sit alongside a fat person he will unapologetically take up 30-40% of your seat space. If you do not want to charge him more, can you at least charge me less? (Since I do not get to use the seat space).
Or why not let fat people sit alongside each other? That way they can feel themselves how they make other people on the plane feel.
The very least an obese person can do is to minimise his carryon luggage – but unfortunately the opposite seems true.
Likewise, if a person does not physically fit into an airline seat, it does not seem unreasonable to me that they would need to pay for a second seat (or a first-class seat, or an extra large seat, however the airline chose to handle the situation).
[Disclaimer: Raving Southwest fan.]
AFAIC, Southwest is better than almost every other airline in almost every other category. Why? Because they have built a business the way I would want to build one, with one thing in mind: the customer.
Almost everything they do is what the customer wants because someone bothered to ask. Whenever I fly another airline, the differences are noticeable and I ask, "Don't these people get it?"
Ryanair sounds like they're doing the same thing in a mechanical way. Once they engage their customers as Southwest has, they'll have raving fans too.
"Ryanair promises four things: low fares, a good on-time record, few cancellations and few lost bags."
Fares aren't low. Easyjet beats them most of the time. Their prices are low only on the front page. It's only 30£ both ways... just add 50£ airport fees (I wonder why other airlines charge only <10£ for the same airport) each way, 20£ if you want to add even 1 piece of luggage, 10£ if you don't opt-out of fast boarding and we're going to ask you to select your nationality many times (only slightly indicating that by doing that you agree to buy insurance). Oh, and 10-15£ fee for handling any credit card at the end. And other things...
So you end up paying ~200£ for a flight that's advertised as 30£. They also wanted to be excluded some time ago from services that listed their real prices.
Oh and on-time flights... that's easy - just say that a 3h flight will take 3.5h - this way they're always 'on time' and passengers can wait some time at the airport (I'm used to arriving 30 min. early on my usual flight)
I paid 16 Euro for a Ryanair flight from Belgium to the UK, I'd say that's pretty low.
If you look at current "offers" you get a 12£ Bratislava flight (chosen at random - really)... if you click "continue" enough times, it's actually: Adult @ 12.99 GBP, Taxes/Fees details 28.27 GBP, Coming Back (Web Fare) 1 Adult @ 12.00 GBP, 1 x (Web Check in) 5.00 GBP
Total Cost of Flight 58.26 GBP
Yay - that's really almost 12£ ;) And you have to pay for the payment too, so it's ~68.26£
Startups should think about their core values and choose a set that they think will work the best.
Hey.... wasn't Hacker News that website with news-links of interest to hackers and startups?