Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by hooande on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @10:54AM
(#7428974)
This is mind expanding. It makes me think of a system of ownership based on usage and care. Free bike, but if you don't use it or maintain it then it gets transferred to the next person. Only make toast one day a week? Then you get the thing on the day that your usage indicates. Tying this to how much the object is used by peers is a great way to answer the question of "how often should the bike be cleaned or how often should someone use their toaster?". The idea leads to less waste and more utility for everyone.
It's not particularly useful to personify machines by giving them emotional states. The toasters in question aren't "needy", they are efficient. The real innovation here is giving an object the ability to take action independently. If I'm not actively toasting then no amount of analytics or notifications are going to get me to pay more attention to it. Just handle it for me, sell it, upgrade it, downgrade it, replace it with a juicer. Giving me information about my usage is creating more work. Taking action for me is doing me a favor.
This whole thing reminds me of Autonomous Corporations [1]. It's generally better when things take care of themselves. The Internet of Things combined with intelligent decision making could lead to societies where people have more time and get more benefit from everything around them. The first and most difficult step is to get our things communicating with each other. Then we can focus on getting them to act on our behalf instead of just sitting unused.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by ronaldx on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @12:16PM
(#7429689)
An interesting example: I think car ownership would be a good fit for this model. I certainly don't need a car 24/7, I just need one when I need one.
If a car could arrive for me to drive it at that time and place that I need it (and depart to another client when I'm done), that could be perfectly efficient... but curiously this business model doesn't even nearly exist. There are too many other things going on.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by seanccox on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @12:31PM
(#7429797)
In Istanbul, we call those cars "taxis".
Among my greatest shocks when I recently visited the states, were the inability to get beer delivered to my home, or easily find a cab just by walking to an intersection.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by Jtsummers on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @12:48PM
(#7429955)
Taxis in the US depends greatly on the city. I live in a small town, the taxis are for the people with no license (DUIs) or who can't drive (elderly/infirmed). No one else uses them and they aren't practical to catch (you have to call them to pick you up). But in downtown Indianapolis last summer I had no issues catching a cab at least until 9 or 10pm (I wasn't far from the hotel after that time). Boston was a similar experience a couple years back. Atlanta and Raleigh seem to be like big versions of the small town I'm in now.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by Crito on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @06:20PM
(#7432282)
Often times you can get beer delivered from your home if you order pizza delivered as well and tell them to tell the driver that you'll tip him well for some beer. It's not economical so it's really not a good option unless you want the pizza anyway and I think the legality is typically questionable at best (liquor/beer laws vary greatly state to state).
You can also often order delivery from grocery stores (Amazon Fresh and Instacart well known for this, but in my experience most grocery stores run their own delivery businesses that you can ask about.) If the grocery store is permitted to sell beer (they are not in some states, such as Pennsylvania) then they will typically happily deliver you beer if your total order is over a certain dollar amount (typically $50 or so).
Also, just about anywhere that beer is sold in the US, you can get a keg delivered to you. Of course most people don't want a keg unless they're having a party.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by r00fus on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @05:00PM
(#7431816)
Just to expand on that, Istanbul isn't even a state (though it's a very large and important city). The USA is a federation of states, with a multifaceted legal framework and also the biggest single-country economy in the world (EU is bigger, but isn't as tightly connected or managed).
Would the comparison of Istanbul to New York City be more appropriate?
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by thaumasiotes on Thursday March 20, 2014 @05:12AM
(#7434508)
> Istanbul isn't even a state (though it's a very large and important city). The USA is a federation of states
Which has more political pull, New York state or New York City? NYC isn't even confined within NY; the Chinese system of "cities of a certain level of significance are their own state-level entities" seems to make much more sense (to me) than the US model does.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by seanccox on Thursday March 20, 2014 @09:39AM
(#7435428)
I used the term 'states' too loosely, it seems. Specifically, I was in Baltimore, Washington DC, St. Louis, Chicago, NYC, Burlington, VT, and Madison, IN, on that particular visit. I hope this satisfies the detractors that feel I was speaking too generally of 'the states'. I was optimally able to get to and from most cities by bus, train, and airplane. However, in none of those cities was I able to optimally find a taxi (meaning, right when I needed it). Notable exceptions included NYC (from Penn Station, but not to it) and DC (though that doesn't really count, because I drunkenly boarded a taxi waiting for someone else when leaving the Capital lounge).
Usually, I would have to call a cab or use Uber. That's fine, but it seems different from the "just need a car when I need a car" observation that invited my quip.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by sp332 on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @04:59PM
(#7431811)
We should give the drones the legal ability to own themselves. That way they don't have to sign anything over to a new "owner", they can just decide who they want to drive around.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by Crito on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @06:15PM
(#7432242)
Perhaps because it knew that humans would not tolerate it. If you live under the constant fear that the Turing Police will execute you when they find you, then you might decide that the best defense is a good offense.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by stan_rogers on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @09:37AM
(#7428499)
I would just like to remind the innovators and disrupters among you that Red Dwarf was meant to be comedy, a parody of trends in society and technology, and not a prescription for the future.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by vacri on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @07:06PM
(#7432500)
The acronym of the previous name of my company was SMEG, and so many of our business services are registered under that name. The 20-somethings here don't really understand why the staff 30+ find it hilarious when discussing smeg-related things... "The SMEG hosting bill hasn't been paid yet" and so forth.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by JoeAltmaier on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @11:17AM
(#7429183)
But then I'd have to find them, somewhere, maybe in the garage?
I worked for a short time with an ex-EBay guy on an escrow service for sellers. You left your stuff with some guy with a storage unit. If it sold, they went to that guy, scanned a barcode they printed when they won the auction, I got paid and the escrow guy got paid.
Never got off the ground. My partner thought it too complex. BUt I kind of liked the idea.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by JoeAltmaier on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @02:58PM
(#7430884)
In my case, it was intended for students. When they leave nobody wants what they have (school is over, everyone leaving). When they arrive they all want the same things. So it was an over-the-summer kind of thing.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by Pwntastic on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @12:24PM
(#7429738)
Actually I think Amazon supports something similar to this, wherein you ship them crap to hold on to and then after they receive and inventory it, they can optionally sell it for you.
Though I'm not sure how the shipping plays into that.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by sdfjkl on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @12:55PM
(#7430047)
Yeah, but you still have to list it, which is work. I actually used a service like this to sell my book collection before I last moved. You ship them a box of books and that's it. After 3 months they tell you which ones they sold, give you 50% of the profit and ask you what to do with the ones that didn't sell.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @09:39PM
(#7433244)
Apply that to tools collecting dust in a garage and I think you have a good business model. Need a tool? It will come to you and you just pay for it. Don't need a tool that you already have? It will leave you for a slightly lower price.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by laumars on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @07:20PM
(#7432574)
I was definitely seeing a Douglas Adams reference, but I was thinking more Sirius Cybernetics Corporation who gave 'Genuine People Personalities' to things like sliding doors and -of course- Marvin.
edit: and of course, Red Dwarf. How could I have forgotten about the toaster in that show? :)
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by JamesBaxter on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @10:16AM
(#7428738)
Another step closer to Genuine People Personalities
When can I buy an automatic sliding door that finds it a pleasure to open for me?
Doors manufactured by the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation are programmed to love their simple lives; they love nothing more than to open and close for passing users, and thank them profusely for so emphatically validating their existence. Most characters in the series grow to loathe the doors, particularly Marvin (and he was the first to explain about the doors' "cheerful and sunny dispositions").
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by deletes on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @10:54AM
(#7428969)
When I first read Ubik I though their economy is unrealistic. How do the appliances and doors that charge for usage make sense?
It makes an interesting replacement for the warranty in the item contract. Pay the toll, and the item is kept constantly serviced. The protagonist's attack on the door also makes sense since it is considered a breach of contract.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by arg01 on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @07:25PM
(#7432602)
Could also be a free to play type thing. You get the door for cheap/free, then there's a service fee for use. Hell I can imagine it with a screen and being asked to watch an ad before egress. Even better is the poor guy stuck outside his apartment while having to sit through a horny ladies in your area ad while the neighbour walks past with her kid in tow.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by deletes on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @07:38PM
(#7432674)
I can think of Kindle as a physical device that comes with ads until you pay more money. Surely there is potential in this approach for other home appliances.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by worldsayshi on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @10:02AM
(#7428644)
But it hints towards some idea of lean living. If you don't need an appliance, if someone else needs it more - why tax your mental capacities with dead things lying around that you don't need, just have it get rid of itself.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by zemvpferreira on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @09:51AM
(#7428586)
This is cool as hell. So many of our IoT applications are already stale -yes yes, big data and consumables reordering, yawn- that it's nice to see exploratory work in the field.
I'd be happy to buy one and see what happens. I think I've been in line for 6 months or so, actually, since Usman Haque told me about the thing.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by _petronius on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @09:53AM
(#7428597)
Reminds me a lot of Caleb Larson's 2009 work "A Tool to Deceive and Slaughter"[1]. Sadly it looks like the project might have stopped completely by now, since the website for it is down[2].
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by Gimpson on Thursday March 20, 2014 @12:03AM
(#7433789)
Yeah, I was really looking forward to watching this over time, but the first time I thought to see where it was it was already out of circulation. Bummer, that.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by monk_the_dog on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @10:54AM
(#7428973)
Is "needy" exercise equipment a thing? That could be a cool product. Or, instead of the bike needing attention, how about the bike feeds/walks/plays with a cute dog. If you don't use it you have an app of your dog begging you to exercise.
We'll put a social aspect in there too. If you sign up with a friend, your pet will start asking for food from your friend if you don't exercise enough (to your embarrassment).
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by hengheng on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @11:44AM
(#7429420)
Every fitness tracker can already do this, or at least could, yet it's not really taking off. I'm guessing that blame and negative emotion are not the best ways to sell stuff.
Except maybe if they are physical products. Having a thing or a person that reminds me of my chores is probably easier on me than a non-local notification system that makes my whole e-mail experience unpleasant, or social media experience, or even spoils my whole phone.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by cturner on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @11:03AM
(#7429051)
Michael Marshall Smith's _One of Us_ has an alarm clock that can't get satisfaction until its owner has recognised the alarm. Also aware and needy white goods who get involved in the plot at places. Good read, but I recommend getting to it after a couple of his other books - the twist is better that way.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by bcoates on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @03:14PM
(#7430985)
I'm just impressed that the designer actually made the product and put it out on the world.
So many of these design-art products are never actually made, which to me is ignoring the entire 'craft' side of the profession--the point of design is to make things actually exist.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by vijayr on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @03:52PM
(#7431334)
It would be nice if there is a system which monitors politicians who don't do much (other than raising funds for their campaigns) and automatically sends their resignation letters, and sends a self driving car to take them to their home!!
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by mentos on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @10:40AM
(#7428886)
Barring any enormous shifts in computing power, the future opportunities are most likely in everyday appliances, the 'internet of things'. I think the Nest is a great example.
If this is true, will we see refrigerators/vacuums/toasters/etc with Apple/Google/Amazon logos on them? Imagine a refrigerator that you could check the inventory of from an app. A toaster that sends you a push notification when its finished. I'd have to imagine while they're not necessary today, 100 years from now they will be the norm. So whos logo will be on them?
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by ballard on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @11:17AM
(#7429175)
The tangential thought, despite the British humor, is that by embueing devices with AI, users will have to be respectful of devices. You wouldn't want your garage opener mad at you after all.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by Zenst on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @09:13PM
(#7433136)
Interesting, but peer preasure from a toaster is perhaps a level of stress nobody would want. Then the aspect of going on holiday, forget to tell the toaster (if it even understands that aspect of life) and bam. Return to chaos.
Maybe people who would like this aspect of interaction with products, but for me the prospect of being ditched by a toaster is just not the type of motivation I feel needs filling in my life.
Re:Needy robotic toaster sells itself if neglected
by qwerta on Wednesday March 19, 2014 @04:56PM
(#7431791)
In my house the toaster would get toasted on firewall.
I am paranoid enough to disconnect regular toaster from plug when not used. This 'intelligent' toaster would get lobotomy. I do not want some hacker to burn down my house.
It's not particularly useful to personify machines by giving them emotional states. The toasters in question aren't "needy", they are efficient. The real innovation here is giving an object the ability to take action independently. If I'm not actively toasting then no amount of analytics or notifications are going to get me to pay more attention to it. Just handle it for me, sell it, upgrade it, downgrade it, replace it with a juicer. Giving me information about my usage is creating more work. Taking action for me is doing me a favor.
This whole thing reminds me of Autonomous Corporations [1]. It's generally better when things take care of themselves. The Internet of Things combined with intelligent decision making could lead to societies where people have more time and get more benefit from everything around them. The first and most difficult step is to get our things communicating with each other. Then we can focus on getting them to act on our behalf instead of just sitting unused.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Autonomous_Corporation
If a car could arrive for me to drive it at that time and place that I need it (and depart to another client when I'm done), that could be perfectly efficient... but curiously this business model doesn't even nearly exist. There are too many other things going on.
Among my greatest shocks when I recently visited the states, were the inability to get beer delivered to my home, or easily find a cab just by walking to an intersection.
You can also often order delivery from grocery stores (Amazon Fresh and Instacart well known for this, but in my experience most grocery stores run their own delivery businesses that you can ask about.) If the grocery store is permitted to sell beer (they are not in some states, such as Pennsylvania) then they will typically happily deliver you beer if your total order is over a certain dollar amount (typically $50 or so).
Also, just about anywhere that beer is sold in the US, you can get a keg delivered to you. Of course most people don't want a keg unless they're having a party.
Would the comparison of Istanbul to New York City be more appropriate?
Which has more political pull, New York state or New York City? NYC isn't even confined within NY; the Chinese system of "cities of a certain level of significance are their own state-level entities" seems to make much more sense (to me) than the US model does.
Usually, I would have to call a cab or use Uber. That's fine, but it seems different from the "just need a car when I need a car" observation that invited my quip.
So Skynet was a delinquent? We're back to William Gibson's corporations as AI-led super organisms?
http://www.google.com/insidesearch/features/images/searchbyi...
Vacuum pumps instead of belly buttons are also incredibly useful, despite the being they're attached to.
Priorities people.
At least they aren't busy trying to build Proteus IV.
Saved me searching for the episode. Thinking out loud - maybe being neurotic is the true Turing test?
At least it will say something before just not working one morning.
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-24707337
2014, in a universe slightly more awesome than ours:
Postman: "Hi, I'm here to collect those old memory modules you left in a box when upgrading and forgot about."
Me: "Wow, I did. How much did they sell themselves for?"
Postman: "$40 - just bump your phone here to get paid. Have a nice day."
I worked for a short time with an ex-EBay guy on an escrow service for sellers. You left your stuff with some guy with a storage unit. If it sold, they went to that guy, scanned a barcode they printed when they won the auction, I got paid and the escrow guy got paid.
Never got off the ground. My partner thought it too complex. BUt I kind of liked the idea.
Though I'm not sure how the shipping plays into that.
How to get rid of old stuff, sell it for more, and use Amazon as cheap storage
http://benguild.com/2013/10/20/store-sell-old-stuff-with-ama...
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6587539
edit: and of course, Red Dwarf. How could I have forgotten about the toaster in that show? :)
When can I buy an automatic sliding door that finds it a pleasure to open for me?
Doors manufactured by the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation are programmed to love their simple lives; they love nothing more than to open and close for passing users, and thank them profusely for so emphatically validating their existence. Most characters in the series grow to loathe the doors, particularly Marvin (and he was the first to explain about the doors' "cheerful and sunny dispositions").
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirius_Cybernetics_Corporation#...
From amazon review:
Ubik (1969) offers such deadpan farce as a moneyless character's attack on the robot apartment door that demands a five-cent toll:
It makes an interesting replacement for the warranty in the item contract. Pay the toll, and the item is kept constantly serviced. The protagonist's attack on the door also makes sense since it is considered a breach of contract.
I had a vacuum here somewhere..... Where is it?
I'd be happy to buy one and see what happens. I think I've been in line for 6 months or so, actually, since Usman Haque told me about the thing.
[1]: http://caleblarsen.com/a-tool-to-deceive-and-slaughter/
[2]: http://www.atooltodeceiveandslaughter.com/
We'll put a social aspect in there too. If you sign up with a friend, your pet will start asking for food from your friend if you don't exercise enough (to your embarrassment).
Except maybe if they are physical products. Having a thing or a person that reminds me of my chores is probably easier on me than a non-local notification system that makes my whole e-mail experience unpleasant, or social media experience, or even spoils my whole phone.
"Get off your fucking fatass, you fucking fatty! You call that tub of shit a body? The scale tells me you gained four fucking pounds this week!"
So many of these design-art products are never actually made, which to me is ignoring the entire 'craft' side of the profession--the point of design is to make things actually exist.
1. Something must be done 2. X is something 3. Let's do X
You'll just make it worse.
If this is true, will we see refrigerators/vacuums/toasters/etc with Apple/Google/Amazon logos on them? Imagine a refrigerator that you could check the inventory of from an app. A toaster that sends you a push notification when its finished. I'd have to imagine while they're not necessary today, 100 years from now they will be the norm. So whos logo will be on them?
Maybe people who would like this aspect of interaction with products, but for me the prospect of being ditched by a toaster is just not the type of motivation I feel needs filling in my life.
I am paranoid enough to disconnect regular toaster from plug when not used. This 'intelligent' toaster would get lobotomy. I do not want some hacker to burn down my house.
Where can I apply to become a host for a toaster in need?
When your sex doll breaks up with you you know you have some real growing to do as a person.
(A sexbot wouldn't be an inanimate all the time, but could become one in a power down mode.)