News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by physcab on Thursday July 30, 2009 @03:18PM (#732865)
Something that always amazes me is how people are willing to sacrifice quite a bit when it comes to monthly food costs, when in reality these costs are incredibly low compared to the benefits you get (nutrition and health). Why don't people reconsider getting trashed on Friday and Saturday nights, where bar bills can run up to $20/night or find less convenient housing and save themselves $50/month. Or how about getting rid of the non-essentials like cable, internet, or a car. IMHO food is the one monthly cost that you should not cut corners, because the long term effects have actual measurable detriments to your personal well-being.
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by kingkawn on Thursday July 30, 2009 @05:16PM (#733089)
Super-mega-lol at $20/night as bar costs. Maybe if you and your date have a drink each.
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by physcab on Thursday July 30, 2009 @11:39PM (#733692)
I live in Gainesville, Fl which is pretty much the cheapest place to live and drink, and $20 is still the norm. $4 cover + 3 beers x $4.00 a piece + $4 tip = $20. Now, recently I found a good bar without a cover charge and if I drink straight Old Milwaukee then I can do 4 x $2.00 + $4.00 tip = $12.00. Even so, doing this once a week is about $48.00/month which is more than the OP paid in food costs per a month.
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by nfg on Friday July 31, 2009 @07:38AM (#734185)
3 Beers = Getting Trashed?
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by physcab on Friday July 31, 2009 @09:49AM (#734406)
Hey, I'm your stereotypical thin and tall, nerdy hacker. However, when my bi-monthly stipend allows me, I will indulge a whiskey on the rocks and build my tolerance :)
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by SirWart on Thursday July 30, 2009 @06:31PM (#733234)
This depends a lot on where you live.
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by socratees on Thursday July 30, 2009 @06:29PM (#733230)
Seriously man I don't even know how far can 20 bucks take you. How much you're goin to tip the waitress? 2 bucks?
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by kingkawn on Thursday July 30, 2009 @06:32PM (#733235)
hell yeah 2 bucks, what was she expecting?
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by lsb on Thursday July 30, 2009 @09:49PM (#733574)
For a tipped waitress, not at a fancy place, the federal minimum wage is $2.13/hr.
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by indiejade on Friday July 31, 2009 @02:04AM (#733868)
No. Actually, it varies by state. I have worked as a pizza delivery "expert" in three different states and as a restaurant slave in five; basically, employers get away with paying people as little as possible, regardless of their "tips". Most servers don't claim their tips (for tax purposes) thinking that doing so will "help" them. But in actuality it actually harms them.

No matter how "noble" a diner might feel in tipping his or her server, it basically amounts to nothing, especially when she splits her tip with the rest of her co-workers.

The unfortunate fact of this circumstance is that most "tipped" workers earn sub-minimum wages. There would not be an illegal immigration problem regarding restaurant workers if it were any other case. But most Americans are fat, lazy, oblivious and don't care.

So. The next time you go out to eat, especially if it's a large nationalized chain (like Denny's or McD's) take a look around at how many of your fellow diners speak Spanish. Look at your hostess/cashier who is making federal minimum wage without tips . . . then look at the restaurant and kitchen workers who are serving you, and decide just how "valuable" it is to go out to eat. Don't pat yourself too much on the back for being a fan of capitalism.

Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by andrewhyde on Thursday July 30, 2009 @03:46PM (#732920)
I wholeheartedly agree with you now, but at the time it just seemed like the thing to do (during a 25 credit term at college). I didn't have a ton of time to think about it, was just trying to get by.

Flip to now where I eat 5-6x a day and have a nutritionist. Time and a place.

Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by mchristoff on Thursday July 30, 2009 @10:48PM (#733641)
i'm interested to hear more about having a nutritionist. would you mind expanding on that a little?

where exactly do you go about finding one? how much does it cost? what exactly do they do for you - plan meal by meal?

Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by jonknee on Thursday July 30, 2009 @04:19PM (#732989)
It's easy. You don't need to break a contract or lease to start it. You can learn how to cook which is a really valuable skill. And if you're not already cooking at home you will almost be assured to be eating better food (well once you get comfortable!).

I usually buy what protein is on sale and plan meals around that. It has a nice side effect of varying my diet.

Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by TallGuyShort on Thursday July 30, 2009 @03:37PM (#732908)
I agree with you on the other ways people could cut back. However, I think people are used to not thinking about their food, and it's become a major problem, especially in America. People generally don't think of food as a necessity for survival if they're not focusing on a tight budget - and as such, they begin forgetting about things like vitamins, healthy serving sizes, protein, etc... The menu he described sounds very healthy to me. Nothing too fatty or processed. It's mostly natural, simple meals.
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by chez17 on Thursday July 30, 2009 @06:01PM (#733182)
I agree with what you're saying. It's amazing me to how people won't support art or politicians that they agree with or any other important thing because they are broke but will have plenty of money for beer.

I have to laugh at one thing:

"where bar bills can run up to $20/night"

Man, you should hang out with my friends for a night. :)

Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by babul on Thursday July 30, 2009 @10:34PM (#733624)
For people who have little money, and are able to do so, going "freegan" may be an idea...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6933744.stm

...it is better than subsistence on what is often very low quality (i.e. nutritional value) food.

Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by billswift on Saturday August 01, 2009 @05:30PM (#736700)
Here's an interesting book on US dumpster diving: http://www.amazon.com/Science-Dumpster-Diving-John-Hoffman/d...
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by sound2man on Thursday July 30, 2009 @03:29PM (#732893)
With the audience on here, I doubt that internet is considered "non-essential". It sounds to me that he ate a pretty balanced diet. Not gourmet by any stretch of the imagination, but plain, and for the most part, healthy food.
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by ryanwaggoner on Thursday July 30, 2009 @04:07PM (#732960)
I agree that it sounds like he ate pretty healthy, but stuff like this really freaks me out:

Lard is the highest calorie per cent food you can buy.

That just seems to be the epitome of penny-wise and pound-foolish for 99.9% of people, who would be far better off trimming their budget in other categories so they could eat healthier instead of viewing food as just a source of calories.

Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by ellyagg on Thursday July 30, 2009 @05:04PM (#733070)
In fact, you can eat all "unhealthy" food and be far healthier than 95% of the people around you by keeping a calorie budget and exercising enough.

In my case, I buy vats of lard at the local grocer and use it liberally. It tastes delicious.

I also work out at least an hour a day. No one feels the need to moralize about people failing to work out an hour a day, and yet that will have 10 times the benefit of micromanaging the nutrients in your diet. I'm strong and fit and my cholesterol is low.

Despite the fact that everyone knows I'm fit, they still say, "Imagine how much healthier you would be and how much more energy you would have if ate "better"?"

!!

Since, I'm the one who's fit, shouldn't you be asking me for advice?

Moralizing about people's diets is part of the same line of thinking as the Progressive movement that sprung Prohibition on us. And, of course, the Progressive movement can trace its philosophical lineage to the Puritans, so there you go.

Eating lots of fruits and vegetables and low-fat foods is not a good in and of itself. A diet is only healthy or unhealthy to the extent that its quality is reflected in your own health.

Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by ryanwaggoner on Thursday July 30, 2009 @05:14PM (#733085)
In fact, you can eat all "unhealthy" food and be far healthier than 95% of the people around you by keeping a calorie budget and exercising enough.

So you're telling me that if you eat McDonald's for every meal for thirty years, you'll experience no health issues as long as you exercise enough? Tell you what: let's have this conversation again in thirty years, provided you're still around.

An anecdote about a personal experience over a relatively short period of time is of limited value to me. Study after study has shown that the western diet has severe detrimental effects in the long run, including diabetes, heart disease, and cancer. Can you mitigate some of that by exercising more? Absolutely. But thinking that you can put whatever you want into your body with no ill effects as long as you exercise enough is ridiculous.

Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by xiaoma on Thursday July 30, 2009 @05:52PM (#733166)
According to one 32,000 person study in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition (1999), "fit persons with any combination of smoking, elevated blood pressure, or elevated cholesterol level had lower adjusted death rates than low-fit persons with none of these characteristics". The same study found that aerobic fitness had a far more important impact on longevity than obesity did.

Fantastic Voyage, Kurzweil and Grossman, Chapter 22.

Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by Evgeny on Thursday July 30, 2009 @06:54PM (#733274)
What about those who were not smoking, had no elevated blood pressure or elevated cholesterol AND ALSO were fit? I would expect them to be better off compared to both groups mentioned. It's not like one has to choose between smoking and obesity ...
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by tvtyviktgfv on Thursday July 30, 2009 @10:44PM (#733636)
Fit and a BMI of 30 isn't obese it's 100m sprinters, NFL players, boxers and heavyweight class martial artists.
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by 321abc on Thursday July 30, 2009 @06:29PM (#733227)
How "fit" or "obese" were the people, and how "elevated" was the blood pressure and cholesterol?

If the study showed that incredibly "fit" people who smoked occasionally and had a sightly elevated blood pressure and/or cholesterol had a "lower adjusted death rate" (what is that, exactly?) than people who sat in front of the computer all day but had none of the above factors, that would be one thing.

If the study showed that slightly "fit" people who smoked heavily and had an extremely elevated blood pressure and/or cholesterol had a "lower adjusted death rate" than people who sat in front of the computer all day but had none of the above factors, that would be something else.

The same could be asked of the fitness vs obesity results. How fit and how obese?

Also, have the results of the study ever been replicated? Or do they conflict with the results of other studies?

Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by xiaoma on Thursday July 30, 2009 @08:58PM (#733494)
The conclusions of the study were strong, and dose-dependent. I.e. casual exercisers did much better than couch potatoes and heavy exercisers did much better than casual exercisers.

The groups were significantly different. The "obese" people in the study had BMIs of over 30. The "very obese" group had BMIs over 35. The "thin" people had BMIs under 25. Similarly, people with diagnosed hyper-tension were compared with those of low-risk blood pressures. A variety of fitness levels were examined, ranging from couch potatoes to daily (but not competitive) runners.

The study found that fitness had a protective effect against each of the other risk factors. In fact, the only other statistically independent predictor of mortality for men and women was smoking.

>Also, have the results of the study ever been replicated?

Yes. There have been a number of very large studies that have produced similar results.

S.N.Blair et al. 1989 "Physical fitness and all-cause mortality" JAMA Nov;262: 2395-2401 (over 13,000 subjects)

I.M.Lee 2003 "Physical activity in women: how much is good enough?" JAMA Sept 10;290(10) 1377-1378

C.D. Lee, S.N.Blair, and A.S. Jackson 1999, "Cardiorespiratory fitness, body composition, and all-cause cardiovascular disease mortality in men." Am J Clin Nutr. Mar;69(3):373-380.

Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by randallsquared on Thursday July 30, 2009 @05:42PM (#733142)
In spite of the faux-documentaries like Super-Size Me, eating McDonald's food doesn't actually make you fat and unhealthy.
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by ryanwaggoner on Thursday July 30, 2009 @06:44PM (#733252)
Care to provide some more details for your statement? I've never seen the film in question, but I've seen (and eaten) McDonald's "food". Fast food has been implicated in weight gain and insulin resistance by numerous studies. Hopefully your argument isn't that you can just exercise more.
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by vidarh on Friday July 31, 2009 @05:49AM (#734097)
> Fast food has been implicated in weight gain and insulin resistance by numerous studies.

Care to point to even a single one where the problem of fast food was not that people tend to vastly exceed their calorie requirements when eating fast food?

I'm genuinely curious. If you eat a "supersized" meal a day, you can easily exceed your calorie from that single meal depending on what you choose and how active you are. Of course you'll get fat and get other health problems in that case, but all that tells you is that eating too much is bad for you.

Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by derefr on Thursday July 30, 2009 @07:57PM (#733391)
My argument is that I really did eat McDonald's food (almost) every day for a month--and lost weight. Anecdotes are anecdotes.
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by stinkytaco on Thursday July 30, 2009 @09:06PM (#733512)
Losing weight is not the only measure of health. If it were, crack heads and anorexics would be ship shape.

There are plenty of other things to worry about beyond our weight when it comes to health.

Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by randallsquared on Thursday July 30, 2009 @08:15PM (#733417)
I know more than one person who have eaten virtually nothing but McDonald's for long periods of time, and who are not especially overweight. Mere anecdotes, of course.

I'm not saying that eating lots of fast food isn't correlated with being fat. However, I would say that since it's quite possible to be skinny and eat enormous amounts of fast food, fast food cannot be making people fat. I would expect that the same character traits which lead someone to eat lots of fast food would lead to being fat for people predisposed to that body type.

Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by ryanwaggoner on Thursday July 30, 2009 @09:12PM (#733521)
I would say that since it's quite possible to be skinny and eat enormous amounts of fast food, fast food cannot be making people fat.

What? The fact that some people eat enormous amounts of fast food without getting fat hardly means that fast food cannot be making anyone fat.

Additionally, you seem to be assuming that skinny = healthy, and fat = unhealthy.

Finally, I'm fairly certain that studies have shown that as western fast food restaurants expand internationally into new cultures, incidences of obesity, diabetes, and heart disease all rise in those cultures.

Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by req2 on Friday July 31, 2009 @12:22PM (#734721)
He's saying that there's no material implication. Fast food doesn't make you fat, and it's no silver bullet to health. The typical fast food reliant diet (more calories than you need) makes you fat.

Ceteris paribus, skinny tends to be healthier than fat, with longer life and better quality of life. One study cited here even indicates skinny people don't even have to be that healthy otherwise to outlive fat people. It's a simple "assumption" that requires more debunking than you have given here.

Studies have also shown that obesity is well linked to disposable income. Is it any surprise that restaurants also expand as disposable income increases?

Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by krschultz on Friday July 31, 2009 @10:20AM (#734462)
It's pretty easy to eat healthy at McDonalds, get a grilled chicken sandwhich with no mayo, skip the fries and soda and get a bottle of water for dinner or lunch.

For breakfast get an egg mcmuffin, no hashbrown and grab a coffee or orange juice.

If you just stick to those two meals when you have to have fast food it does basically no harm.

Fast food gives you the rope to hang yourself with, you don't have to do use it.

Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by gwern on Thursday July 30, 2009 @11:27PM (#733683)
> Care to provide some more details for your statement?

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Super-size_me...

Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by alexbosworth on Friday July 31, 2009 @12:39AM (#733770)
super size me did include a guy who ate mcdonalds every day for decades and was perfectly fine
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by Hexstream on Friday July 31, 2009 @08:57AM (#734291)
Genetics might be in it for something. You'll always find people who can do huge amounts of unhealthy habit X without consequences.
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by cpach on Thursday July 30, 2009 @04:28PM (#733006)
I don't think I would ever eat lard, but some proponents of the low-carb diet surely would approve.
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by jonknee on Thursday July 30, 2009 @06:01PM (#733183)
It's a natural fat used around the world, nothing to be scared of. If you get "real" lard (not hydrogenated), it has no trans fats and can be quite useful in the kitchen. Hispanic grocery stores or butcher shops are a good spot to find it.
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by 321abc on Thursday July 30, 2009 @06:37PM (#733242)
So what that it's "natural"? All sorts of things that can harm or even kill you are "natural".

  - Cyanide is "natural".
  - Hemlock is "natural".
  - Mercury is "natural".
  - Cobra venom is "natural".
But none of these are things I'd want to spread on my toast in the morning.
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by derefr on Thursday July 30, 2009 @08:01PM (#733394)
The word "natural" doesn't mean "part of nature" when speaking of nutrition, it means "part of our evolutionary history." We ate lard in the past(and survived because of it, and evolved toward making use of it.) We did not eat cyanide.
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by 321abc on Thursday July 30, 2009 @08:22PM (#733428)
That's not the meaning of the word "natural" in the context of nutrition, from my understanding. Perhaps the word you're looking for is "traditional".

Semantics aside, I'll gladly grant you that lard is a food that has been eaten in the past. But, once again, that doesn't mean it's necessarily better than other foods that haven't been eaten in the past.

An good example is "golden" rice. An argument could be made (and has been made) that golden rice could save millions of people from devastating vitamin deficiency which they would continue suffer from were they to avoid golden rice for their "traditional" foods.

Plenty of traditional foods just aren't very nutritious or healthy.

Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by stinkytaco on Thursday July 30, 2009 @09:16PM (#733530)
I know that HNers will scoff at the citing of popular literature, but I find the arguments in "Diet for a Small Planet" and "In Defense of Food" quite compelling when it comes to "traditional" foods. Traditional diets are developed to make best use of the ingredients available in a region and are often the healthier than "scientific" diets. A good example is Mexican food. Corn and beans together make a complete protein.

I think that tradition, like cuisines, is an ever changing thing, however.

Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by whatusername on Thursday July 30, 2009 @10:41PM (#733630)
Also - do a quick google for B17 -- Since this whole chain of comments is a bunch of anecdotes - I've met two people who have been 'cured' of cancer taking that. After chemotherapy had failed / they had been written off.

(B17/Laertrile is banned in a lot of places US/Aus/etc - for links/containing/Cantbebotheredreadingthestudies Cyanide).

Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by wvl on Thursday July 30, 2009 @07:56PM (#733385)
If you're losing weight, you're at a calorie deficit. Where does your body get the extra calories from? You got it, your own lard.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/saturated-fat-healthy/

Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by biohacker42 on Thursday July 30, 2009 @05:04PM (#733068)
I may be wrong, but I think lard has less saturated fat then butter and possibly even cream cheese. So while not good for you in anything other then tiny quantities, it may be less bad for you then other stuff you have problem putting on your bagel.
Re:How To Live (Comfortably) on $36 A Month For Food by metachris on Thursday July 30, 2009 @07:28PM (#733328)
yes! i'd much rather save $30 somewhere on food than cutting off internet, if i had to